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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Tournament events question
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    Tournament events question
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    Which event goes? What should organizers DROP?
    Mixed Doubles
    1%
     1%  [ 1 ]
    Open Doubles
    7%
     7%  [ 4 ]
    Men's Doubles
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    Ladies Doubles
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    Mixed Trios
    67%
     67%  [ 36 ]
    Blind Draw Cricket
    11%
     11%  [ 6 ]
    Blind Draw 501
    1%
     1%  [ 1 ]
    Men's Singles 501
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    Men's Singles Cricket
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    Ladies Singles 501
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    Ladies Singles Cricket
    3%
     3%  [ 2 ]
    None -- Keep them all.
    5%
     5%  [ 3 ]
    Total Votes : 53

    Author Message
    GeorgeCostanza
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Nikki, when I have more time at work today I will respond to your last 2 e-mails with a P.M. ( I understood your 2 posts fine )

    Just trying to bring attention to Frank and his " Schmoopy Schmoopy " , posts that drive some of us wild ? No Biggie
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    habanerojooz
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    For the record, I voted to drop mixed triples.

    But overall, I feel that if an event is making money for the organizers AND the event is run efficiently with the other events, I say the organizers should keep it, regardless of what event it is.

    On a personal note, if I don't want to play an event, I just skip it. Like QueenBee states, skipping an event gives me time to relax, or go out and eat at a decent restaurant, etc. Tournament weekends are long. I used to enjoy playing in every event possible, but that is not the case anymore.
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    GeorgeCostanza wrote:


    ...........wow, Costanza going against the mainstream SEWA ? Pure Blasphamy !!!! ( I see another suspension looming ) Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


    Not that I want this post to highjack the thread, so if folks want to discuss this issue it should be taken to it's own thread (again).

    But Mark, you are not so alone Smile It's just not PC to say so Wink but then I
    am not always PC. I'm sorry ladies, I am not trying to offend anyone, but no lady in the world has been able to match the top male players and an analysis of readily available information demonstrates this. To say that the ladies can beat the men but using standard league play for examples isn't being honest. There are plenty of D and C level men (35-45 PPT ave) that the top ladies will beat all day long. That is not in doubt and proven over and over again. But it's when the top ladies match up against the top men and play extended formats that the averages begin to sort out. The ladies don't compete.

    2006 Winmau World Masters Ladies Winner ave in Finals: 76.56 PPT by Francis Hoenselaar.
    Trina Gulliver did not make it to the finals but in her Semi Finals Match averaged 77.37 PPT losing to the highest listed women's average: 82.53 PPT by Francis Hoenselaar.

    Karen Krappen who was the runner up shot a 68.25PPT average to make the finals and shot 77.94 in her losing bid to Francis.

    Carla Molema shot 67.86 PPT to lose to Karen's 68 in the semi's.

    Now the men's (same event):

    Finals winner: 94.50 PPT
    Runner Up: 93.69 PPT
    3rd-4th: 93.09 PPT and 90.69 PPT

    Highest listed? 103.68 PPT by Martin Adams.

    All other information aside, The top lady dart players in the world are 20-30 PPT behind the men on average. They would not make the quarters (took a minimum of 79.62 PPT to make it) and likely would not make it that far as many of the men were throwing 80+ averages and getting knocked out earlier.

    In the word championships (men) it is widely excepted that you MIGHT make the TV stages (Top 32 or 64) if you can average 85PPT all day long.

    If the top lady players are averaging in the mid 70's most of the time, they will not make it past the lower part of the Top 100 Male players who are consistently averaging in the mid 80's to lower 90's.

    It's statistics.

    I honestly believe that until a woman comes along that can average in the mid 90's to 100+ all day long, this argument can't be won by those that believe women can compete with men at the highest level.

    Erik
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    GeorgeCostanza
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Well said Erik. Trust me I am not trying to offend Nikki herself or any of the women she brings up ( Marilyn, Stacey ) I played with them numerous times over the years . I KNOW HOW GOOD THEY ARE. But PLEASE Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    Stacey is hands down the best woman shooter the USA has ever produced. Her accomplishments are 2nd. to NONE.. Having said that could she beat a man here and there along the way ? Absolutely. Would any guy want to play her ? No Way ! Could she concievablly finish in the top 10 of the mens ADO points ? Sure, her work schedule allows her to make most tournaments anyway and her talent is such she would be a force.

    But could she compete on a regular basis with the men and win some of these tourneys ? No way. Like Erik says , it's all in the numbers, they speak for themselves !
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'm not going to argue with either you Mark or Erik, as far as your points. All I am trying to get across, you both just said. On any given time, a woman can beat a man. I never said thay could beat the top male shooters. Can it happen, yes, stranger things have happened.

    As for your comment Mark about how I carry myself on this site, you could learn from it. I choose not to insult anyone or talk down to them. If you think it is wrong, don't read my posts. Simple as that.
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    GeorgeCostanza
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Laughing Laughing Laughing Frank, what I need to learn is after I read the posts on SEWA ( yours or anyones ) is not to comment on them ! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    No Mark, that's not the answer, you have a lot to offer this site, what you need to learn is respect for everyone on this site, or at least show them respect on the open forum. There is always the pm system for your other remarks. Nobody likes to be attacked in the open forum.
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:
    No Mark, that's not the answer, you have a lot to offer this site, what you need to learn is respect for everyone on this site, or at least show them respect on the open forum. There is always the pm system for your other remarks. Nobody likes to be attacked in the open forum.


    Well said!

    Now we need to get this thread back on track.
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    Niknak
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I agree that numbers don't lie... however, I also believe that there is no physiological reason as to why. So what the reason? I think it comes down to need. At this point and time top women don't need to shoot 90-100ppr to win if 70-80 will do, so why set the bar higher? I think it is human nature to only get as good as you have to, as good as your need requires. As a human, if I only play against C level players, I will probably never advance my game to beat an A player. I am convinced that need plays a huge part in ones ability to get better. No need, no advancement. At this point and time the top women only have to get so good to dominate their field. Your right as of today the elite women are not on an even playing field as the elite men but, I believe that as the sport grows for women you will see those numbers rise.

    I wonder does anyone have the similar stats for 10-20 years ago? I wonder if the numbers are higher now than they were then. And I wonder how far the women were behind the men compared to now? It would make for interesting research. I would also be interested to know how many women were on the world stage back then versus now. If anyone could tell me how to get this info that would be great. I am kind of a research junkie and would like to test my theory.

    BTW Mark, when I first started reading posts here I couldn't belive that, that was really Frank posting!!! Sorry Frank, but so different to the man I used to know!! Smile Smile Smile

    Niki
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Niknak wrote:
    I agree that numbers don't lie... however, I also believe that there is no physiological reason as to why. So what the reason? I think it comes down to need. At this point and time top women don't need to shoot 90-100ppr to win if 70-80 will do, so why set the bar higher? I think it is human nature to only get as good as you have to, as good as your need requires. As a human, if I only play against C level players, I will probably never advance my game to beat an A player. I am convinced that need plays a huge part in ones ability to get better. No need, no advancement. At this point and time the top women only have to get so good to dominate their field. Your right as of today the elite women are not on an even playing field as the elite men but, I believe that as the sport grows for women you will see those numbers rise.

    I wonder does anyone have the similar stats for 10-20 years ago? I wonder if the numbers are higher now than they were then. And I wonder how far the women were behind the men compared to now? It would make for interesting research. I would also be interested to know how many women were on the world stage back then versus now. If anyone could tell me how to get this info that would be great. I am kind of a research junkie and would like to test my theory.

    BTW Mark, when I first started reading posts here I couldn't belive that, that was really Frank posting!!! Sorry Frank, but so different to the man I used to know!! Smile Smile Smile

    Niki


    This is perhaps the most valid post on the subject! Well said, well thought out, and definitely worth considering.

    I wonder if perhaps there should be a new series featuring women and men (say the top 4 of each) and if this would occurr, we'd see the results.

    As for stats, I can get them back a ways I think.
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Recent stats:

    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/Lakeside2006Women.pdf
    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/Lakeside2006Men.pdf

    Here is the big one:
    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/WorldPro2006Women.html
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    mufc77
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: mixed trips Reply with quote

    Hi Eric the worse event that I can think of (apart from any form of cricket..sorry to those that love that game) is the mixed triples. I have been to so many events where a messy trip team has held up the finish of a round robin for as long as 2 hours. If it is in a tournament it should be straight knockout. Another thing is having 3 events in 1 day!!!If it is not straight KO it should not be attempted!!!!!
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: mixed trips Reply with quote

    mufc77 wrote:
    Hi Eric the worse event that I can think of (apart from any form of cricket..sorry to those that love that game) is the mixed triples. I have been to so many events where a messy trip team has held up the finish of a round robin for as long as 2 hours. If it is in a tournament it should be straight knockout. Another thing is having 3 events in 1 day!!!If it is not straight KO it should not be attempted!!!!!


    Sean, I tend to agree Smile
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    77,
    I agree with the straight knock out, but I do like to play cricket too. I think cricket is like a good game of chess, it's harder to play than 501. In cricket, there is so many different strategies, while in 501, all you have to do is know how to subtract, and set up your out. Just my opinion.
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    mufc77
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: just a matter of preference Reply with quote

    I grew up in N.Ireland and cricket just never was apart of darts there so dont get me wrong I have since seen the merits of the game and see the enjoyment that alot of players get from playing. My bias against soft tip has actually decreased recently also as I see the same deidcation and love for that game in the players as I have for steel tip. I guess if cricket brings more entrants to a steel tip event then I guess it's hard to argue against having it.
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    Niknak
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    Recent stats:

    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/Lakeside2006Women.pdf
    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/Lakeside2006Men.pdf

    Here is the big one:
    http://dartswdf.com/aa_darts/world_pro/2006/WorldPro2006Women.html


    Thanks Eric for the stats! I can't wait to look at them, probably later today. Yesterday was family day, no darts, no computer, no tv.

    Niki
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    RogerCarter
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Personally, I feel events should be as follows:
    Pro Mens and Ladies Singles
    Mixed doubles cricket
    Mens doubles cricket
    Ladies doubles cricket
    Mens/Ladies Singles cricket
    Party Very Happy
    Mixed doubles 501
    Mens doubles 501
    Ladies doubles 501
    Mens/Ladies singles 501
    Go home.

    That is 12 events on a weekend equally distributed between ladies and gentlemen. It won't kill you to play in all of them either. The party is an extra.....
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    jester
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    looks good roger......no trios........ Cool
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That works for me Roger. When you going to run a tournament? I would go to it, and I would drag dwalsh with me too.
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    i agree anne, no mixed at all would be nice.
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    supabull
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    PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:35 am    Post subject: Re: just a matter of preference Reply with quote

    mufc77 wrote:
    I grew up in N.Ireland and cricket just never was apart of darts there so dont get me wrong I have since seen the merits of the game and see the enjoyment that alot of players get from playing.


    Even Mr. Part sees the merits of cricket since he has enjoyed winning, "In all, over 40 cricket singles titles...":

    http://johnpart.com/awards.php
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    RogerCarter
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    PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    John only wins when i'm not there. Ask him about Atlanta. No, nevermind, don't. Evil or Very Mad
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    RogerCarter
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    PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    And by the way, be on the lookout for a $20,000 Roger Carter Open coming in July. Will be held in Birmingham, Alabama and we are working the details out right now. Looks like it will be the same weekend of the Desert Classic for all you that won't be spending a week (or just can't) in the desert. I know I can't afford it and there a lot of folks that are in the same boat as me.
    Thinking about a Friday (Day) Singles event for men and women with a $100 entry for men and a $50 entry for women, with a good payout in both. Then onto the rest of the activities for the weekend. Friday should be a holiday for everyone and these events will be prepay only or $150/$75 one hour before registration. Will have to wait and see how things pan out. But will definitley keep all informed.
    There are hotels near the venue, Birmingham Race Course, and the manger is working on gettin shuttles for the hotels he works deals out with. Keep an ear out and I will let everyone know as soon as we get it all panned out.
    The format will be similar to the one I proposed earlier.
    Southwest airlines flies right into Birmingham as well.
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    PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Wow, clever name! How DID you come up with that one? Razz Laughing Laughing

    (Sounds dangerous though... If things don't work out it could easily become the "Roger Carter Open Your Wallet" event! Twisted Evil )
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