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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - PDC vs ADO vs WDF
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    PDC vs ADO vs WDF
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    Do you think we need more PDC ran events?
    1. Yes
    53%
     53%  [ 17 ]
    2. No
    6%
     6%  [ 2 ]
    3. Maybe
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    4. I would like to see similar formats ran in the U.S. by the U.S.
    40%
     40%  [ 13 ]
    Total Votes : 32

    Author Message
    dartflight
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: PDC vs ADO vs WDF Reply with quote

    I don't want to get banged up here, so just take this for what it is.

    Is it me, or do we seem to be catering to the PDC players? Where's the BDO/WDF?

    Yes, Yes, Yes, I know they are the ones promoting right now! But if we can post the results of the PDC matches, why shouldn't emphasis be put on posting the remaining results of the tournament also? Just as quickly?

    I realize there are more results to post, however, there wouldn't have been a tournament without the American players.

    An incident (slight) occurred, and I was told, "it is their tournament, they can act as they want"! I have waited a few days to say anything, as not to be rude. If I am not mistaken, the singles event and quailifier were theirs, not the tournament! I may be looking through skewed glasses, but feel like...COME ON!

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy talking with the "foreign" players as well as the "natives", however, I don't think it is called "PDC America". We did lose a sanctioning in one of the events because of it. Do we need to lose our ability to run tournaments also? We lost valuable floor space as well. I truly enjoyed the tournament and thank the Windy City Darters and their efforts, this has nothing to do with them.

    I heard one Brit complaining because of the bye's in one bracket and that Stacy was basically walking through to the last 16. He was very upset...? It was supposedly "their" tournament and ran by them? There members, Steve Smith, Roland Scholten, Wayne Mardle and I think another, are the ones who didn't show. Not an American problem as far as I see it. They also set their standards, ie. no alcoholic beverages on the immediate table behind the oche. I think Peter Manley was left out on that one. He told me "He needed to get a drink of his FROZEN WATER". It was vodka put into his water bottle.

    THIS IS NOT GOSSIP, I WAS THE ONE HE SAID IT TO! I WAS SITTING THERE! Aren't rules, rules?

    Just curious as to when the line is drawn, PDC help/promotion vs we'll run your tournaments and do what we like?

    Disclaimer: I "Dartflight" have nothing wrong with "ANY" player at the Windy City Open. My opinions do not reflect the opinions of this website or any of it's members. This is just a question I have raised for the purpose of discussion. No dart players were or are about to be hurt in the typing of this post!
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    Trip_Floor
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DF:

    First of all, the tournament was NOT, repeat NOT, run by the PDC. The only event that the PDC was involved in running was the qualifier/singles on Sunday. Even then, who from the PDC "ran" the event? The officials were all American (OK, Clive is Canadian). Tommy Cox wasn't here. Rod Harrington wasn't here. Barry Hearn wasn't here. As for the results, I posted most of the Saturday results in this very forum on Saturday. After the brackets started to go bad, I stopped for obvious reasons.

    The bottom line is, the BDO does not, has not and will never care about the American audience. Seeing them involved in a tournament here is akin to the ADO running a county tournament in Bristol. I wouldn't mind seeing the WDF taking a lead, but they're in a backwards place right now.

    Look, Americans are more than capable of running PDC-Style events. I'm sure you noticed that most of the WCOpen events went to a longer format after the first few rounds. That's beacuase people like to play longer-style, but you just can't do it in the early rounds in a tournament like we had last weekend! Why? The lower caliber players would DRAG ON the event. Did anyone realize that the PDC event was actually a shorter format than typical PDC events? It was. If it had been best-of-5 sets best-of-7 legs, two first round matches would still be playing!!!

    I'd love to be able to put on an event of that caliber and payout without support from the PDC, if for no other reason than to prove that the Americans CAN rival the British. Even if that happened, I think it would be foolish to turn our backs on the PDC, because they have shown an interest in America, and they have the attention of the world as well. Right now, the problem is, WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DO EVENTS LIKE THIS! The longer the format, the fewer the events. The fewer the events, the fewer $$ for entries. The fewer $$ for entries, the lower the payout (or the tournament goes out of business in two years). I admire Catfish and his efforts. Hopefully Columbus was just an aberration, but until Americans prove that they're willing to pay higher entry fees for fewer (and longer) events, we can't take the risk of underwriting a $50,000 + purse without help. We're still working with Catfish to put on an American Singles Series event here in Chicago, but it's a much smaller payout (than the WCOpen) and it will (hopefully) have a sponsor to underwrite much of the cost.

    Finally, as to the sanctioning issue, in my opinion we didn't LOSE 501 sanctioning because of the PDC, we were not GRANTED 501 sanctioning because of the amazing lack of foresight and common sense by some of the folks at the ADO. If the ADO doesn't want to sanction seeded events, and is willing to turn its back on GUARANTEED MONEY that was going to be paid to them BY THE ASSOCIATION (WCD was going to pay the ADO sanctioning fee for each player), then maybe they're no longer part of the solution... Any serious tournament series in any sport will, by necessity, evolve into seeded events. Golf does it. Tennis does it. Baseball does it. Football (both kinds!) does it. Darts will do it too.
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Oh yeah, and in answer to your poll question, IMO the answer needs to be a combination of #1 and #4. We want similar events run by Americans, but we still need the PDC support. To divorce ourselves from the PDC at this point is to jump off the train just as it's beginning to gain momentum.
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    CannonFodder
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'll take Barry Hearns over Olly Croft any day! (except, I would be playing in WDF tournaments only if I was still living in Norway).

    PDC is a life-saver for Darts in the US. The ones having the drive and talent to compete with the best in tournaments where there actually might be money to gain won't have to leave the continental US (which is a good thing considering the "strength" of the US$). Besides, if we want Darts to succeed, then we need to get more TV coverage. I don't see that happening with the WDF.
    In any case, I agree with DougM. I really like the fact that I can go to a tournament here in the US and meet some of the best players in the world. If I don't want to play the "absolute best" ones, there's certainly lots of other tournaments that I can go to (even in the mid-west).
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    PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Okay, here goes AGAIN! I really don't understand why we have to pitch one body against the other like this, particularly when many people over here don't even know the difference between the organizations, let alone what they do and they way they operate. I've already spent too much time going through this on previous threads, but this is what I have to say...

    Yes, it's great that we have these PDC events here. It IS giving Americans more chances to play at the top level, but don't fool yourself into thinking they are just doing it for us, simply to be nice. The PDC is trying to get its foot in the American door, along with the American TV and American MONEY. All you have to do is look at the original restrictions on the North American Tour events to see that. True, they relaxed the two event restriction, but it was a case of having to.

    We, as a nation, can and should be jumping on the bandwagon, but that is down to us, and nobody else. Personally, I have throughly enjoyed competing in the Players Championship events, and I would love to see more. However, we must be careful. The PDC is NOT the answer; this is NOT a life-saver. The PDC can be part of this resurrection, maybe even the initial spark, but WE, as a nation, can and should be jumping on the bandwagon, but that is down to us, and nobody else.

    Steve
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Not wanting to rock the boat at all here. But just thought I’d mention, that it’s a pretty standard joke over here in England about water.

    If you’re at work, and you’ve got a glass of water, “It’s Vodka really”, is a very commonly used saying.
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I agree with Steve- we need the PDC right now,but at some point we need to sink or swim on our own.The PDC is here so their top 32 can make some money,not to further my desire to be a top player. Twisted Evil
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dwalsh wrote:
    The PDC is here so their top 32 can make some money


    i disagree

    if the pdc just wanted to give the top 32 some money why come all the way over to america to do it?

    the PDC is a professional organisation and they are wanting to spread the game worldwide and obviously reap the rewards if/when it works

    they are in it for themselves as much as for the players
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dartoid wrote:
    I have a question: why can we mention here what was mentioned above about the player (using his name) and the vodka but not be able to name the names(s) of the players who "acted up" in Virginia Beach and Atlanta?


    This too was changed. If you look back at the thread on Atlanta, it had some stated parameters. I wasn't slamming anyone, just stating obivious facts.

    If someone were to step out of their shell, look at the PDC objectives, they would see that the PDC is a great organization, however, they have alterior motives. MONEY!

    The BDO doesn't come into play here, only the PDC, ADO and the WDF.

    As I said in the beginning, I wasn't upset with anyone or anything in particular. I just see (from an outside dart players viewpoint) "it's all about me/us" from the PDC.

    How many thought an American would win the WSOD?
    How many think an American is going to win a PDC event?
    How many think the PDC is here to strengthen the American Dart scene?

    I just don't like seeing American dart player getting their hopes up for a huge let down. Do we have great players? DUH! Yes, with no doubt. Are we on the same level of competition with the Great Brits? NO! Will an American break into the top 32 of the PDC allowing some greater chance to compete? Not within the next 3-5 years, in my opinion. I would like to see it though.

    Mike Brewer. Period. I watched him throw/compete this last week in Chicago for the first time. I was totally amazed/suprised. Speaking with Chris Mason afterwards, he was sweating to win that one.
    Steve Panuncialman! Talk about coming of age. He hung tough! He knocked Johnny K out 3-1. Surprisingly great talent is out there, and not just the same 3-4 players we always see on the ADO tour. I would love to see one of, if not more, of these guys/gals gain international recognition. I would love to see an American world champion. Stan James winner, or any other event with the international talent. But in the same breathe I am not having the wool pulled over my eyes about why the PDC is here or at what cost.

    Again, I am just discussing the above poll questions, not looking for answers here in this thread.

    As an outsider, who probably knows nothing of darts, this is what I see and what is being projected to my vantage:

    1. BDO British Darts Organization (simply put, British Darts Organization) not much different in what the ADO should/is doing here.
    2. WDF World Darts Federation (simply put, World Darts Federation) a governing body for world darts. This would include the BDO, ADO and so on, for their sanctioned events.
    3. PDC Professional Darts Corporation (not a league, but an organization formed to allow players of high caliber to earn respectable money for their sport).

    I see a group of players, very good players, trying and somewhat succeeding at making a living from playing darts. But who is making the money? I see over 2 million pounds being played for in one calender year. That's around 4 million dollars! Who is actually making the majority of this? The top 4, top 8, maybe into the top 12?

    I see the Order of Merit at the 32nd place making 26,512 pounds (maybe $52,000 dollars) and that is over 21 months! I don't know about anyone else but if I were making $25-$26 thousand dollars a year and had to support a family or even myself, I couldn't do it. This is in fact, one of the reasons the PDC has floated across. There is HUGE advertising money and sponsorships available here. YES, IT IS AVAILABLE HERE! Just the whole, "LACKING EXPOSURE" thing. Hence, the marketing machine of the PDC/Barry Hearne. Which brings me back to the initial. The PDC is not here to make Gary Mawson or Ray Carver or Johnny or Darin Young a world champion. They seen what happened with the WSOD after the Americans were out....zilch! So, let's make a few American stars and devise a way to break into the money machine that is AMERICAN TELEVISION! I am not condemning them for doing this, don't take what I am saying as a slam on them. They are just doing what is most adventagous for their "PROS". I also don't like seeing the hopes dashed continually.

    If I had deep pockets and could afford to invest MEGABUCKS into a circuit like that here in the U.S......I MOST DEFINITELY WOULD! Dreams on my part though.
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Well said Jon-I'm on that bandwagon. Twisted Evil
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    If someone were to step out of their shell, look at the PDC objectives, they would see that the PDC is a great organization, however, they have alterior motives. MONEY!


    What better motive is there? Rolling Eyes
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Yes the PDC is holding 4 events a year here. How many events are held in Europe that are easy for hundreds to take advantage of if you live in Europe? A few more than 4 I believe. It will be difficult for an US player to make it to the top 32 without traveling over to Europe a few times a year as well. The players that are climbing the Order of Merit now have done some of that but will need to go over a few more times in order to break into and stay in the top 32. In all actuality though they need to be in the top 20 to ensure their placements in the different guaranteed events. The PDC is having more and more events where they are allowing wild cards into the main draw which leaves out players in the top 32. Given that the ranking is kept over a 2 year period it will take more than getting a good standing in a tournament to get you there you will need to repeat that standing the following year or you will drop. Also, it makes it more difficult to break into given that if I started next year the people already playing have 2 years of winnings already on the books that I have to surpass to make it in. It is stacked against the US player but it is attainable. Who's to say that the PDC won't have more events here in the next couple years. Then those who have been playing these events will have the upper hand on those who haven't given the different length of matches played.

    Of course this is just my opinion,

    Alan
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dartoid wrote:
    I have a question: why can we mention here what was mentioned above about the player (using his name) and the vodka but not be able to name the names(s) of the players who "acted up" in Virginia Beach and Atlanta?


    Off topic I think Smile But you CAN now mention these incidents and the individuals who are involved provided it's done professionally and with respect to this community and the site Smile

    Cheers
    Erik
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dartoid wrote:
    I apologize.

    I light of this, I just want it to be known that Steve "Chucky" Brown frowned at me during the Oil City Shootout a couple weeks ago. It upset me greatly and caused me to drop my hotdog on the floor.

    Then Steve ate it.


    That's just sick!
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dartoid wrote:
    Quote:
    Will an American break into the top 32 of the PDC allowing some greater chance to compete? Not within the next 3-5 years, in my opinion.

    I personally believe this view is way wrong. I think that the likelihood is very high that an American will break into the PDC's top 32 inside of the next three years. Part of the reason I believe this is because of the events the PDC is holding on American soil. Four times a year now America's best have an opportunity to tally points that, until recently, they pretty much couldn't have done without going to Europe. Furthermore, whatever your view of the PDC's motives, I dare say that if, as you have suggested, it is all about money, it will be to their considerable benefit if an American does break into the top 32.

    I may be wrong, but, only time will tell. If you look at what Alan said, "having to travel overseas to stay/obtain top 32" is very much hitting the head on the nail. As for "it is wise" for the PDC to make it obtainable for an American to be in the top 32? Why/why not?

    Why? Simply put, it makes an American a local hero. Darts has some credence on home soil at that point, creating a viewership. In turn, this allows the PDC more access to the almighty U.S. dollar. So on and so forth. This is NOT to make the U.S. darters better/more competitive players. It just happens that in a round about way, the outcome is viewed as such.

    Why Not? We as American darters are NOT at the competitive level! History has proven this. Why is Larry Butler the ONLY American to win a major event on foreign soil to this date? This was 14 yrs ago! I am not discounting Steve, Ray, Darin for their wins at the Windy City the last three years. They are impressive wins, however, only a handful of PDC players have been in attendance. Yes, Ray and Darin made it to the finals last year at Windy City, putting out "foreigners", yes Steve is an asset to our darts, each and everytime. Folks we are talking about a country that has over 300 million people in it and we can only mention maybe two hand fulls of great/competitive darters in ALL TIME.

    I used to angry when Dave Depriest would say things like, "you know, there are only a hand full of people here who have a legitimate shot of winning this". I don't anymore, he is correct. He pulled off a great victory at the WSOD qualifier. I cheered for him in the last three rounds. You know what, even at the one event (WSOD), a qualifier, he was right. Dave is experienced and a great shot, I would never discount that. The same philosophy exists in international play also. Who do you think you would put your money on in the World Championships, The Grand Prix? This is hypothetical only, of course an American has to be able to get there first! Are you truly believing that an American darter is going to win or are you truly a betting man trying to make the 500/1 odds pay off? 250/1 odds? 100/1 odds?
    When Johnny was winning in the World Championships 2 years ago, I was cheering for him the whole way. The accomplishment alone was to be commended. What Wayne Hyvenga done (South African) was just the same. Darts are being exposed to every continent on the planet by the PDC, not just the U.S.. Why? Because the more exposure the greater the paydays. Are the European players that much stronger? I really don't think you can argue that point. Yes, hence the 10/1 payout difference in the WSOD. 1 million dollars for a qualifier vs 100,000 dollars for a European (Canadian).
    A qualifier from 300 million people vs the arguably the 16 best dart players in the WORLD! IT IS about the money. Until the PDC "INVESTS" substantial amounts of effort/money into the U.S. darting scene, this is how I will view it. Please don't take me the wrong way here, I thoroughly enjoy the PDC events, the conversations with the best players the world has ever scene, being able to play against them for a "SHOT" and I would be wrong if I didn't mention, the possibility of winning a major event against one of them.

    But the PDC is a machine right now. YES, we could learn from them! Yes we should be on the bandwagon, BUT for our own gain!
    But, until we learn to play and win like them, we are a stepping stone for their financial gain! I wish someone here with pockets could see this, plan and impliment a same type of scenario (GO CATFISH) and have success in doing so.

    Look, I will never be a professional, full time dart player. Not going to happen! But, the passion I have for the game can't override what I see as a reality when it comes to what the PDC is planning out. It is too clear. If a more clear scenario needs to be laid out, think of it as this:

    WAL-MART vs Joe's 5&10 store.
    Home Depot vs Sam's hardware

    Honestly, who do you think is going to win? Yes, we will have our moment to do the "Wave" at an event. But, we won't be declared a Dart SuperNation anytime in the near future. Can it happen? Yes, and Dorothy found the great OZ also.

    My opinions are going to rattle quite a few people. I don't mean to work against the grain either. I DO want Americans to win and WIN BIG. What my whole point is, is the question, Are we just being used as a stepping stone or is there sincerely concern for American darters? My answer is NO! We can be just a rung on the ladder of success for the PDC. Please be careful of who you choose to sleep with.
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    dartflight
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dartoid wrote:
    I apologize.

    I light of this, I just want it to be known that Steve "Chucky" Brown frowned at me during the Oil City Shootout a couple weeks ago. It upset me greatly and caused me to drop my hotdog on the floor.

    Then Steve ate it.


    He waited for it to hit the ground?
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dartflight wrote:
    Dartoid wrote:
    I apologize.

    I light of this, I just want it to be known that Steve "Chucky" Brown frowned at me during the Oil City Shootout a couple weeks ago. It upset me greatly and caused me to drop my hotdog on the floor.

    Then Steve ate it.


    He waited for it to hit the ground?


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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Not sure how much it factors in...but by giving away spots in the World Championship and Grand Slam....I think I read Gary is guaranteed $8000. If true...that goes quite a way to propelling someone up the ladder...especially if he can win a few.
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    PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    chunky wrote:


    We, as a nation, can and should be jumping on the bandwagon, but that is down to us, and nobody else. Personally, I have throughly enjoyed competing in the Players Championship events, and I would love to see more. However, we must be careful. The PDC is NOT the answer; this is NOT a life-saver. The PDC can be part of this resurrection, maybe even the initial spark, but WE, as a nation, can and should be jumping on the bandwagon, but that is down to us, and nobody else.



    Don't disagree, but you were in Columbus. We have the people in this country who CAN plan the events and CAN make the tournaments happen. The players need to show up and SUPPORT them though.

    dartflight wrote:


    As for "it is wise" for the PDC to make it obtainable for an American to be in the top 32? Why/why not?


    Of course it is. You concede that the PDC is out to attract American $$, and what would bring more interest to the sport in this country than a top-ranked American?

    dartflight wrote:


    This is NOT to make the U.S. darters better/more competitive players. It just happens that in a round about way, the outcome is viewed as such.


    EXACTLY, just as it's not about making British darters better/more competitive players, or German darters, or Dutch darters. The PDC isn't about making ANY darters from ANY country better! It's about sponsorship, advertising and MONEY! Does the PGA exist to make golfers better? No. It exists to give the top-ranked players a venue to compete, and generate the revenue that comes with it. Even if the PGA itself is a not-for-profit, that doesn't mean they can't make money! It just means that they have to use the money they make to further their purposes and benefit their membership.

    dartflight wrote:

    Folks we are talking about a country that has over 300 million people in it and we can only mention maybe two hand fulls of great/competitive darters in ALL TIME.


    What is "All-Time"? In this sport, it's about 50 years or so (on the competitive stage). Let's look at China. We are talking about a country that has over 1 billion people in it. How many great/competitive Chinese American Football players can you name? How about golfers? Dart players? Why is that? They aren't well known games yet! How do you grow ANY game ANYWHERE? Exposure. That's what the PDC is trying to provide. And if it isn't for altruistic purposes, in my mind, so what? It accomplishes the same goal, and makes it easier for those of us who DO have altruistic purposes in mind to accomplish OUR goals! Sorry to sound Machiavellian, but in this case, the end truly DOES justify the means because the means aren't harming anyone! Does having the PDC around in the U.S. hurt any of our league players or casual darters? No. However, HAVING the PDC around in the U.S. can, in fact, HELP our league darters and casual players by increasing interest in the game. An indirect result of increasing publicity of the professional game is to increase participation in the game at the lower levels. What if there IS an American Phil Taylor out there somewhere? What if he doesn't KNOW he's an American Phil Taylor, but sees PDC darts on TV somewhere, says "hey, that looks pretty cool", picks up a dart and finds he's a natural? Does it matter any longer that the PDC was trying to attract American money? I don't think so.

    hoopie wrote:

    It is stacked against the US player but it is attainable. Who's to say that the PDC won't have more events here in the next couple years. Then those who have been playing these events will have the upper hand on those who haven't given the different length of matches played


    Exactly. It's stacked against the Americans NOW, but it won't be forever. Actually, the PDC might want to consider following golf's lead and make people have to QUALIFY to play on the PDC tour sometime in the future. Have a "major" tour and a "minor" tour (like the Nationwide Tour in golf).

    dartoid wrote:

    I think that the likelihood is very high that an American will break into the PDC's top 32 inside of the next three years. Part of the reason I believe this is because of the events the PDC is holding on American soil. Four times a year now America's best have an opportunity to tally points that, until recently, they pretty much couldn't have done without going to Europe.



    YES, YES, YES, YES and YES!

    dartflight wrote:

    The PDC is not here to make Gary Mawson or Ray Carver or Johnny or Darin Young a world champion. They seen what happened with the WSOD after the Americans were out....zilch!


    That was more because ESPN completely botched the coverage of the WSOD. If they'd have done a better job planning their shows, ratings would have stayed strong throughout the series, IMO.

    I'm all about the Americans doing similar events, but why blaze a new trail with a machete 25 feet to the right of one that's being bulldozed and paved for you?
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    catfish
    Dart Sergeant
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    Joined: Nov 09, 2006
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    PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Let me chew till tomorrow. Its coming
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    dartflight
    Dart Gunny
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    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
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    Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan

    PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    SLEEPYKRAMER wrote:
    So why can't we look at it with a more positive perspective?.....why say the PDC is using the US as a stepping stone?

    How about the US is opening it doors to use the PDC to pave the road for us....that way when the growth is there, someone here can jump in and make it bigger and better, the American way. Wink Wink


    That's all fine and dandy, however, you call it what you want, it's still there ballgame, um, I mean dart game.

    Someone jumping in and making it bigger and better has yet to be defined or shown interest from on the U.S. side of things.

    If you look at the poll, although not scientific, there have been 30 votes, and the majority say "have more PDC run events". This is because they are established and kind of know what they are doing. Again, don't read me wrong here, I enjoy the players and the tournaments that the PDC hold. I just see them using the U.S. as a money bag and hoodwinking the U.S. players in the meantime.

    As for smiley saying that Barry Hearn is lining his own pockets......well....isn't he? That's what a promoter does, period. He seen the possibilities and took control at a critical time. At he PDC's asking. That's opportunity!
    Players not having a realistic chance of competing on that level (WSOD) is manipulating the reality (1 mil vs 100,000). That's taking advantage and quite frankly slapping Good Darters in the face. You can call opportunity or advantage or opening the U.S. doors til your blue in the face. I am an optimist, but I am also a realist!....and YES, I back all U.S. players however I can! I am just stating my opinion on how I take on the current status of the PDC vs ADO vs WDF. No ill feelings towards anyone or any organization.

    I do wish I could win the lottery and PROMOTE U.S. DARTS! LOL!
    _________________
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    Trip_Floor
    Dart Sergeant
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    Joined: Oct 05, 2006
    Posts: 245
    Location: Chicago, IL

    PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dartflight wrote:


    That's all fine and dandy, however, you call it what you want, it's still there ballgame, um, I mean dart game.


    Yes, of course it is, but it won't be forever. If anyone thinks that anything remotely akin to the PDC could have started in the United States 5 years ago, they're mistaken. I know we're all dart nuts in this thread, but let's be realistic! The U.S is not the U.K.! Darts isn't as big here as it is over there - and it may NEVER be. That's a fact - we have to accept it and try to level the playing field one step at a time! Again, I hope that Catfish's series gets going and takes off. I'll do whatever I can to help it do so, but it's NOT at PDC level - and probably won't be for the forseeable future UNLESS it can attract TV.

    dartflight wrote:


    Someone jumping in and making it bigger and better has yet to be defined or shown interest from on the U.S. side of things.


    You're incorrect on this one. Jay Tomlinson has started to fill that role, as have a few others. IMO, someday in the not-too-distant future there will be some formal PDC infrastructure set up in America. Remember, it's still new, and not just any person could set one of these events up and run them. There's a lot more into it than just setting up a couple of boards and going to town. There is a learning curve there, and the Americans are the ones ON that curve in this case, rather than the ones who CREATED the curve. Heck, up until Atlanta, there had only been one American PDC official - and there are plenty of procedures that have to be followed in that job, or some players get pretty ticked off. I mean, things no one would even think of on their own.

    dartflight wrote:

    If you look at the poll, although not scientific, there have been 30 votes, and the majority say "have more PDC run events". This is because they are established and kind of know what they are doing. Again, don't read me wrong here, I enjoy the players and the tournaments that the PDC hold. I just see them using the U.S. as a money bag and hoodwinking the U.S. players in the meantime.


    How are the U.S. Players getting hoodwinked? If you want to be the best, you have to play the best, and that's what U.S. players are getting the opportunity to do. If you know the deal before you enter an event, and you still choose to enter that event, then there is no hoodwinking, right? Or am I completely misunderstanding your point?

    dartflight wrote:

    As for smiley saying that Barry Hearn is lining his own pockets......well....isn't he? That's what a promoter does, period. He seen the possibilities and took control at a critical time. At he PDC's asking. That's opportunity!


    Yes, that's opportunity, and without a doubt he is profiting. However, it's a pretty mutually-beneficial relationship. Whatever your personal views on Barry, you have to admit the man's a promoting genius...

    dartflight wrote:

    Players not having a realistic chance of competing on that level (WSOD) is manipulating the reality (1 mil vs 100,000). That's taking advantage and quite frankly slapping Good Darters in the face. You can call opportunity or advantage or opening the U.S. doors til your blue in the face.


    Actually in my view, the only slap in the face here is toward the UK players who were competing for much less $$. Again, everyone who entered a WSOD qualifier knew how long the odds were. Still, it didn't cost a single cent to enter a qualifier, except for the Friday Night Madness. How can we complain that we're being slapped in the face when we didn't have to pay into the pot that we were getting paid out of?

    dartflight wrote:

    No ill feelings towards anyone or any organization.


    Of course not - and I don't think anyone took it that way.

    dartflight wrote:

    I do wish I could win the lottery and PROMOTE U.S. DARTS! LOL!


    I'm 100% in agreement with you here...
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    chunky
    General Brown
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    Joined: Aug 03, 2006
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    PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    dartflight wrote:
    As for smiley saying that Barry Hearn is lining his own pockets......well....isn't he? That's what a promoter does, period. He seen the possibilities and took control at a critical time. At he PDC's asking. That's opportunity!


    The problem is that it going against everything the PDC (then-WDC) used to stand for. The organization was formed on the principle that in order to compete in major event, one had to QUALIFY, by means of a ranking system; no favoritism. Unfortunately, that has gone - money is talking, and not rankings.

    Now, we are having scads of wild cards, and the guys who are traveling the world and are trying to work their way up the rankings are being left out. Many of you probably don't realize that the PDC is actually working towards a "chosen few". It is likely that there will be a closed shop of maybe 16 players, and what happens then?

    Steve
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    RogerCarter
    General Carter
    General Carter


    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
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    PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That is the way I have been looking at it Anne, but "ALL" players have to look at it the same. Steve has pretty much covered that. But you are correct in reversing the usage of the PDC. Hopefully Catfish will be able to keep the ball rolling and eventually players will see it as an advantage to participate. (North American Singles Series).
    I have read some of the replies here, some are too long winded though. But quite a few are pretty much saying, in a nutshell, "We are not good enough to compete with the English, Dutch or whoever." It sounds as if we cannot produce the goods to win one of these. Most players cannot, but a lot (LOT) can. Johnny, Ray, Gary, Darin, Isen and several others. The opportunities will keep coming and eventually it will happen. Why put a time range on it? Who cares when? Lets just keep trying.
    I just want to see darts respected here in the U.S. again and have players start acting like Jerry Umberger, Nicky Virachkul, K.C. Mullaney, and several others that have accomplished huge upsets overseas before most of our times. It would be nice to see our top players respected instead of laughed at.
    Oh yeah, John Kramer too. Sorry JK, love ya mean it. Laughing
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