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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Why isn't barrel length more important?
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    Why isn't barrel length more important?
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    Which concerns you most
    The shape of a dart?
    50%
     50%  [ 9 ]
    The weight of a dart?
    22%
     22%  [ 4 ]
    The length of a dart?
    27%
     27%  [ 5 ]
    Total Votes : 18

    Author Message
    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    My guess is that you have now trained yourself to throw that shape and size of dart. Other two inch darts are going to feel fine to you as long as they have a similar shape; howeever, go smaller or larger and you will experience your comfort level decrease. Or you may try a longer or shorter barrel and discover as I did, a marked improvement in your game. Through tradition, we focus on the weight. But thinking about the length of the dart can really yield some amazing discoveries.
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    When I began this post, I also sent out E-mails to every major dart manufacturer requesting information on the construction of dart barrels and specifically asking how length for any particular design was decided. It has been a week and my inbox is still empty.

    Voks, Orion Vector, Nordor, B&W, Unicorn, Winnamau, Harrows, Bottelson,
    JW' s M3 Darts, Dart Team, Demi, Magick, Accudart, and a few others.
    I have not received a response from any of them. Could it be that the length of your darts is just a whimsical choice of the manufacturer? Is it possible there is no good reason at all for the length of a dart?

    Is anyone else actually finding this as fascinating myself? And the fact that I have not received an answer from anyone is equally facinating.

    Why do we ask other players, what's the weight of your dart. Why are the weights of professional darters darts posted on websites and not the lengths?

    Too many questions and no answers at all...... so far.
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    wsuxjer
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    That's interesting on the posted lengths....both of my soft-tip sets would be considered short I guess. My Bottlesen Skinny's are 42mm and my other set is 42.5mm. So maybe steel tip barrels are longer for some reason?
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Weight!
    That's the only reason. No one is paying attention to the length of darts. They make a dart, consider it's weight, and basically go with whatever length the designer recommends. No consideration at all is given to the length of a dart, except by the guy in the office who drew the picture.

    Gee, I don't know. We have several darts in the 45mm range, let's make something around 42. That's it. That is the secret to your dart's length. Some guy is throwing the model, he says "that feels good to me." and off they go into production. No thought at all as to how the dart will fit you.
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I think this question has dumbfounded the manufacturers as well. I still have not received a response from anyone. What's up with that? I'm a paying customer.

    I recently asked B & W darts to alter a set for me. Even though they advertize that they will make custom darts for their customers, they will not modify the darts they have. I asked Derik about 5 times. He avoided my questions and never once offered me the courtesy of a 'No' answer.

    I have never had a problem with B & W. I think they have a great gange of darts and I have ordered many sets from them. It's amazing to me that I can not get an answer. In my last request to Derik, I pointed out that the site advertized custom darts and made my request again. He replied with "Thank You."

    That's a strange way to do business from where I am sitting. Oh well, I guess it's his company. He can run it the way he likes.
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    wsuxjer
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Taechon wrote:
    Weight!
    That's the only reason. No one is paying attention to the length of darts. They make a dart, consider it's weight, and basically go with whatever length the designer recommends. No consideration at all is given to the length of a dart, except by the guy in the office who drew the picture.

    Gee, I don't know. We have several darts in the 45mm range, let's make something around 42. That's it. That is the secret to your dart's length. Some guy is throwing the model, he says "that feels good to me." and off they go into production. No thought at all as to how the dart will fit you.
    Try looking for some soft-tip barrels. Both my sets are right around 42mm.
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I shoot with a 21 grm MP dart. I discovered that by removing the MP tip the dart only weighs 18.7 grams. Add a soft tip and I'm back up to 20grams, completely legal for Medallist.

    There are just lots of darts I would like to try if they weren't so long. Most fly great cut down.
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    Dart_talker
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Taechon,

    If you want to ask a product question of Unicorn you may want to contact Edward Lowy(he is the Managing Director of Unicorn Products). He does post in the DarterZ boards in the Ask Unicorn forum. I would be interested to hear what he has to say.

    I also think it would be great if reps from Darts manufactures would frequent darts forums such as this one.

    edit:
    Edward Lowy is a member of this form as well, and he has made a post here.
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thanks, I think this is a facinating subject for all, beginners and advanced players. Why are your darts the length they are? Why has no one asked before?

    I think Unicorn posted an adequate diplomatic answer while skirting around the main point. I think, the simple fact of the matter is, that it is too difficult to make darts in varying sizes that would please everyone. Still, I think we could get a short, medium and long version of some of the more popular styles. If you want a dart in a special size, find someone to make it or customize it. It's just that simple. Dart manufacturers are in the business of mass production and generally don't have time for the little guy. It's a shame.

    You know, I'll bet that if Unicorn just assigned one guy to a lathe to deal with special orders and gave him the title of "Dart Master Machinist” That guy would fill enough special orders to pay his own salary 5 times over.

    Anyway, check out Unicorns reply. Since it is a manufacturer, I thought they should have first billing in a thread and not be buried down here at the bottom.
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    crashfromboston
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    to me the most important thing would not be on that chart.. to me its grip..

    i need to feel my darts in my hand and know i have a positive grip.. i have thrown tiny darts.. 21gm black widows are very short.. less than 1.5" i believe.. perhaps a touch longer.. to my longest which were my golden eagles.. which were i believe slightly over 3" in length.. i have set aside darts that cause you to either grip a dart too hard.. or are just too akward to hold without my hand cramping after a while..

    i was fortunate enough to shoot against john lowe about 10 years ago. and he took great pleasure beating someone with their own darts.. i think you should be able to throw any style available if the need be (say your out and don't have your darts).. and john reitterated the same thing.. its great to have a set that fits your grip and hand size perfectly. but you should definitely be able to throw anything at any time..

    i saw that link on zeeple's blog, i e mailed the guy, he gets 110$ us dollars to machine darts.. however his are based on the bottlesen gt dart..
    which may not be for everyone.. he is very flexible in what you can get .. for knurls and other grip modifications..

    trust me if i could find a reasonable priced cnc.. i would start making darts.. its not a profit business, darts are low margin.. but making something that will get used and appreciated is why craftsmen make things.. if everyone were out to get rich.. darts would cost 1000$ a set..

    i should get my uncle making darts, he's a master machinest and i bet he could whip out sets easily.. hmmmmm.. i may be on to something here..
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I've been thinking of doing it myself.
    Simple alterations can be made on a lesser machine.
    For about $400, the price Vokes wanted to charge me for two sets of darts, I could reshape the ones I have now.

    Just my thoughts.
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    Dead_Eye
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The neglect of the industry publishing length of dart barrels is a point well taken, but how about the length of the point?

    Pardon my ignorance, but is there a standard point length? I throw with the EL-C system, and point lengths are a variable... I often hear folks talking about shaft length, and flight shape, but rarely do I hear about interchanging point lengths.

    Just introducing another variable here, and I would love to hear your thoughts.

    Johnny
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    crashfromboston
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    points are more subjective.. you can have your local shop remove and replace based on preference.. my old set of black widows had coated points which i liked a lot.. but they were short for my taste.. on the other side.. there were extra long points available for both hammerheads and powerpoints.. i used the power point versions when i was throwing them.. as they are smaller diameter than the hammerheads they really did not affect the balance at all.. the hammerhead points on the otherhand.. the xl versions were so substantial that i could never throw them correctly.. needless to say i swapped them with someone who liked them a lot..

    having your own point removal and replacement tool may be very handy if your not near a shop..


    replacement points are not all that expensive.. especially if your throwing fixed points. but paying someone to swap them out can be a pain..

    the way i look at it.. the dart companies only want to make x models of darts .. to reduce production costs (lathe set up and other items).. so they are not goign to give you too many options.. as they have to sell so many of each model to break even, (or even turn a profit)..
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't know.....
    According to Voks, "the tip length determines the barrel length, but you can get longer points if you like and it won't effect the barrel length." That's a direct quote and it sounds kinda set in stone to me.

    And we let these guys make our darts for us? Who is the being more silly, us or them?
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