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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - "Old Darters never die. They just fade away."
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    "Old Darters never die. They just fade away."
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    WC
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: "Old Darters never die. They just fade away." Reply with quote

    Ever wonder what happened to the massive number of competitive and recreational darters that packed public venues in the 70's and 80's?

    Even if they reached a point where the pressure and regimen of leage/tournament competition was beyond them, why are they not still meeting up with friends for a pint and a friendly game or two or spending time on their board at home?

    Virtually everyone here knows at least one person who was very active for years and just is not there any more. I know from personal experience because I was one of them

    Why have we “just faded away?”

    What can be done so that, at some point, you don’t “just fade away” too?

    IMO, there are a myriad of excuses but only few actual reasons.

    What are your thoughts.

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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I guess I could consider myself fading away in some instances..

    3 years ago I played Tuesday league, ran a LOD on Saturday's, and would practice at home for close to an hour a day on average.

    Then I got a call in October 2009 at a match that my father in law was in ICU and may not live more than a few hours.

    Early 2010 the LOD stopped running, lack of interest. I went to another one nearby for a while but when my father in law came home and needed to be driven to dialysis 3 times a week plus all his other appointments, I stopped going out to that since it was on Friday and I take care of him Saturday.

    Early 2011 I had a knee injury..couldn't really play much on Tuesday and at all otherwise..then in summer my arm went out.

    I'm past the 2 injuries now and just starting to play at home a little, but with a full time job, a part time job (running 2 leagues) and caring for him I have little free time. It kills me because I love the game and have seen my skill drop pretty far from what it once was but first things first
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I dont know about others but I find this to be a kinda all or nothing thing. I have taken layoffs in the past but during those time I didnt play at all. If I'm playing I'm playing if I'm not I'm not. Perhaps its the frustration of knowing "what you used to be able" to do vice what your game looks like when you do it ad hoc.
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    PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'm of like mind on that one Larry..I try to cram in a little practice time at home if nothing else. Tournaments and LODs for the time being will still be something I will have to admire from afar unfortunately..
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    As one of those fading players, my reason is simple. It's my family. It took me 20 years, but I finally realized that I had to fit my family in somewhere. I decided that somewhere was front and center.
    Darts used to consume every second of my time, leaving me no time to share with my wife, kids, and now 16 grand kids. I took a good look at the big picture, and saw how I was letting my whole family down. Cookouts without me, birthday parties without me, grand sons football games without me, all of the things a husband and father should not only be a part of, but should want to be a part of. So if I am labeled as a fading player, so be it. I call it growing up.
    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying one can't play darts, and be a family man at the same time. You only have to look at dwalsh to see that. He has mastered it, and I wish I could do the same. I tried, and couldn't do it. In order for me to play darts, I have to put everything in it. I can't do it half way. So for those who can do both, I tip my hat. As for me, I will just fade away.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:
    As one of those fading players, my reason is simple. It's my family. It took me 20 years, but I finally realized that I had to fit my family in somewhere. I decided that somewhere was front and center.


    Excellent, honest, "straight shooting" post.

    I sincerely hope many of our "fading" members and current visitors will make honest posts to this thread.

    Thank You,

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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I find it interesting that darts is not much of a family game here in the USA, so much of the time when you have to focus more on family you find that darts gets set aside...

    Wouldn't it be great if there could be a family "darts night" at family friendly establishments around town, or if you could hear your friends say; "I have to take the kids to their darts practice tonight." Or if at family reunions the old folks could sit around and say: "Little Annie just got select to her darts league's All-Star team!"

    ... if only it could be like that we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dart_talker wrote:
    I find it interesting that darts is not much of a family game here in the USA, so much of the time when you have to focus more on family you find that darts gets set aside...

    Wouldn't it be great if there could be a family "darts night" at family friendly establishments around town, or if you could hear your friends say; "I have to take the kids to their darts practice tonight." Or if at family reunions the old folks could sit around and say: "Little Annie just got select to her darts league's All-Star team!"

    ... if only it could be like that we wouldn't be having this conversation.



    That would be a wonderful thing, now wouldn't it.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'm just fading fast... Sad
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:
    As one of those fading players, my reason is simple. It's my family. It took me 20 years, but I finally realized that I had to fit my family in somewhere. I decided that somewhere was front and center.
    Darts used to consume every second of my time, leaving me no time to share with my wife, kids, and now 16 grand kids. I took a good look at the big picture, and saw how I was letting my whole family down. Cookouts without me, birthday parties without me, grand sons football games without me, all of the things a husband and father should not only be a part of, but should want to be a part of. So if I am labeled as a fading player, so be it. I call it growing up.
    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying one can't play darts, and be a family man at the same time. You only have to look at dwalsh to see that. He has mastered it, and I wish I could do the same. I tried, and couldn't do it. In order for me to play darts, I have to put everything in it. I can't do it half way. So for those who can do both, I tip my hat. As for me, I will just fade away.



    I think one thing about you Frank is just how big of a family you really have. In my case I have no children and most of my family is not located anywhere near me.

    I also am uber fortunate that my wife is very understanding of me having my own time, for darts and other things like all the concerts I go to. Had I not met her playing MMDL 10 years ago my life may have taken a very different turn
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Don't get me wrong Chris. I can have all the my time I want. I choose not to, because of all the time I have already missed with all me kids, and grand kids. That is time I can never make up, but I can make it better.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Right, what I mean is in your case you have a larger family so it's not quite the same as for me with just 3 nieces/nephews. And yeah, time is never to be taken for granted, it's the same thing I go through with my terminally ill father in law..which is why it's been some time since I've been to a LOD or the Moose.
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    PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dart_talker wrote:
    I find it interesting that darts is not much of a family game here in the USA, so much of the time when you have to focus more on family you find that darts gets set aside...

    It a bar game here in the USA. It's something people do after work while they drink and smoke. That's how it starts. Then some people become good at it and go tournaments where they drink and smoke all day.

    Then they started to take the drinking and smoking out of it; you know to give it a better image Rolling Eyes So what happened, less drink, less smoking = less participation.

    To pad my point just look at the comment on any youtube video of Bristow, George, or any dart player smoking and drinking on stage, and the comments are..."The good old days".

    I don't know, it is what it is here. I haven't seen a lot of dart playing at chucky Cheese's
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    PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Agent5432 wrote:
    Dart_talker wrote:
    I find it interesting that darts is not much of a family game here in the USA, so much of the time when you have to focus more on family you find that darts gets set aside...

    It a bar game here in the USA. It's something people do after work while they drink and smoke. That's how it starts. Then some people become good at it and go tournaments where they drink and smoke all day.

    Then they started to take the drinking and smoking out of it; you know to give it a better image Rolling Eyes So what happened, less drink, less smoking = less participation.

    To pad my point just look at the comment on any youtube video of Bristow, George, or any dart player smoking and drinking on stage, and the comments are..."The good old days".

    I don't know, it is what it is here. I haven't seen a lot of dart playing at chucky Cheese's


    When you ask the average non-dartplayer; they will tell you that they had dartboard at home growing up played from time to time, but now don't own a dartboard or have no idea how to throw darts properly. If they do have a board they don't know which games to play, and there is nowhere a family can play outside of the home.

    We have made it such a bar dependent game that few dartplayers can imagine playing the game away from a bar, or without an adult beverage close at hand. It's time for us to approach our local Boy's and Girls Clubs, and Boy and Girl Scouts to start teaching the game to kids and their families!
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    "English" Darts is a game / sport.

    It can be played by an individual or multiple individuals.

    It requires a specific dart board that is hung at a specific height.

    The participant thorwn three (3) darts at the board from a specific distance to score.

    It is usually played indoors

    It is usually played by individuals age ~ 10 to 100

    Drugs of choice are not required to play the game.

    Public locations are not required to play the game.

    Trying to define Darts as a "bar game" reminds me of The Blind Men and the Elephant.

    Step Back. Look at the whole picture. There is a great deal more to Darts than most can ever imagine.

    Steel tip Darts and scratch Pool are both alive and well in private homes; break rooms in businesses; and nicer public venues the USA. They are just not doing so hot in bars where the patrons are too cheap to willingly pay for the use of the equipment and space unless they are required to shove quarters in a slot.

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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dart_talker wrote:

    When you ask the average non-dartplayer; they will tell you that they had dartboard at home growing up played from time to time, but now don't own a dartboard or have no idea how to throw darts properly. If they do have a board they don't know which games to play, and there is nowhere a family can play outside of the home.

    We have made it such a bar dependent game that few dartplayers can imagine playing the game away from a bar, or without an adult beverage close at hand. It's time for us to approach our local Boy's and Girls Clubs, and Boy and Girl Scouts to start teaching the game to kids and their families!


    That's the funny thing about darts. I don't know many people that have not owned a dart board at one time in their lives. By that fact, darts should be one of the biggest games/sports going on. Maybe the dart industry is fine with that. They don't don't seem to do much more promotion other than sponsoring events. I remember seeing Barry Twomlow when he came to town, but the only people at the bar were already dart players. How do you introduce darts to the people? You could have the sporting goods stores have demonstrations, but they are pretty much big box anymore, and have big box thinking. To that point I don't see quality products at the big box stores, so once a person get involved and want a set of 90/10 tungsten darts that they don't sell, they have pretty much promoted themselves out of a customer.

    What's the subject again? Why have all the players faded away. Generations pass, one goes out, a new one comes in. What seeds have been planted? I think back in the 70's and 80's it was brand new, so it was exiting and brand new, but now it's been here for a while, people have gone on the find outer things to do. There is something to that, that when a new sport is introduced it generated a lot of attention, but if it's been around for a while not so much.
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    PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    WC wrote:
    "English" Darts is a game / sport.

    It can be played by an individual or multiple individuals.

    It requires a specific dart board that is hung at a specific height.

    The participant thorwn three (3) darts at the board from a specific distance to score.

    It is usually played indoors

    It is usually played by individuals age ~ 10 to 100

    Drugs of choice are not required to play the game.

    Public locations are not required to play the game.

    Trying to define Darts as a "bar game" reminds me of The Blind Men and the Elephant.

    Step Back. Look at the whole picture. There is a great deal more to Darts than most can ever imagine.

    Steel tip Darts and scratch Pool are both alive and well in private homes; break rooms in businesses; and nicer public venues the USA. They are just not doing so hot in bars where the patrons are too cheap to willingly pay for the use of the equipment and space unless they are required to shove quarters in a slot.

    WC


    Great post, and very true.
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    [quote

    When you ask the average non-dartplayer; they will tell you that they had dartboard at home growing up played from time to time, but now don't own a dartboard or have no idea how to throw darts properly. If they do have a board they don't know which games to play, and there is nowhere a family can play outside of the home.

    We have made it such a bar dependent game that few dartplayers can imagine playing the game away from a bar, or without an adult beverage close at hand. It's time for us to approach our local Boy's and Girls Clubs, and Boy and Girl Scouts to start teaching the game to kids and their families![/quote]

    That is funny and a bit amazing thing got to hear!!!
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I agree robindust, which is why I have been teaching my 13 year old grandson how to play, and any of his friends, that have their parents permission. As one who never really needed to drink to play the game, (though I did with the exception of a few seasons) I think it is important to teach future players the game, the way it was meant to be played. But this is for a different thread. I would like this to stay on topic, which is about fading players, and how to prevent said players from just fading away.

    As I said in my first post here, I am one of those fading players, and gave my reasons for doing so. What I neglected to mention, and this is a very important piece of my decision, is the constant drama that seems to be following the game these days.
    I remember when you used to be able to go out and compete at the highest level, with no drama to speak of. Nowadays, it seems even at the lower levels, there are arguments, fights, threats, and poor gamesmanship. Did any of this happen 20 years ago, sure it did, but no where near the frequency it does now. Alcohol is a big part of that, but not the only cause. Drugs are attributed, as is just plain idiocy.
    People need to start taking the game serious again. Just look at long time players like Dave Walsh, Bruce Robbins, Levi Remick Tom Sawyer, and Tom Curtain to name a few in the Ma area. There are other all over the map, but they play the game right. Do they drink, sure they do, but only 1 or 2 until the day is over. No drama, unless it is pointed at them. Watch them, and you will learn how to conduct yourself at a tournament, or in league play.
    Fading players? As one, I would hate to see the likes of the above just fade away. They have to much to offer to this game. Please don't drive them away.
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Lol Frank! Did you even read the spammers nonsensical post? I must admit I enjoyed reading your retort anyway. Good post.
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:

    I remember when you used to be able to go out and compete at the highest level, with no drama to speak of. Nowadays, it seems even at the lower levels, there are arguments, fights, threats, and poor gamesmanship. Did any of this happen 20 years ago, sure it did, but no where near the frequency it does now. Alcohol is a big part of that, but not the only cause. Drugs are attributed, as is just plain idiocy.


    That's because, IMO, a lot of the people now playing are part of the generation that all got participation medals, high fives, and hugs just for playing. There are a large number of people that feel they are owed success. So, instead of practicing and putting the time in to compete at the highest level they can, they instead use the fights, threats, and poor gamesmanship that you speak of. That's a much easier path then to actually take put forth the effort to improve.
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    avaholic wrote:
    Chitown599 wrote:

    I remember when you used to be able to go out and compete at the highest level, with no drama to speak of. Nowadays, it seems even at the lower levels, there are arguments, fights, threats, and poor gamesmanship. Did any of this happen 20 years ago, sure it did, but no where near the frequency it does now. Alcohol is a big part of that, but not the only cause. Drugs are attributed, as is just plain idiocy.


    That's because, IMO, a lot of the people now playing are part of the generation that all got participation medals, high fives, and hugs just for playing. There are a large number of people that feel they are owed success. So, instead of practicing and putting the time in to compete at the highest level they can, they instead use the fights, threats, and poor gamesmanship that you speak of. That's a much easier path then to actually take put forth the effort to improve.


    BAZINGA!!!!!!!!! Give this man a cigar!
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    PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'll chime in, In the 80's I was in my 30's, (still younger than Frank though) a lot of the big time players were 10 to 15 years older than me, although players like Mulkerrin, Baker, Vardaro, Byers and many more were closer to Frank and my age which is early 60's..These people that I have mentioned were at the time as good as anyone around anywhere when they decided to attend major events..Age kicks different people different ways as we all get older, and your drive level decreases even if your mind wants to do it..Others burn out having accomplished what they set out to do and don't need the frustration of losing by a dart or 2 after playing at a high level all day..Sickness is a big factor and some top players of years ago don't want to admit or refuse to tell anyone that their sight is failing, their back is gone, developed a form of arthritis, or who knows what form of illness has attacked their game...The economy is a real kick in arse for most, along with the drinking laws, no smoking ect..So enjoy what you have while you have it cause someday someone will ask you why you don't play anymore...As for me, an occasional LOD and playing with my son's on Tuesday nights at the highest level the MMDL has to offer suits me just fine... Wink
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    6 Darter Me
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    Joined: Oct 29, 2012
    Posts: 34

    PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hi fellow Darters,

    In Britain or the UK whatever, its a big mistake when many guys tend to sometimes make when saying England as Britain as the UK consists of as well as England also Scotland , Northern ireland and Wales .
    And Darts in Britain always is played with steel tip darts inside always
    as our Weather doesnt agree with playing outside as even in our Summer
    if we get one that is Sad you never shall see anyone in Britain play darts outside ..Mainly is played in pubs ..although many practice also in the house with a board up in their bedrooms ..

    A good thing i reckon was banning smoking from pubs and inside cafes restaurants and such as when i played way back in the 70s / 80s
    but a had to wade through clouds of smoke to get ma darts from the board and the years of this happening then a dont know as to what with the swallowing others smoke has done to my lungs , and time shall tell i guess
    as well as clothes - stinking of smoke , so i was happy with the smoking ban in Scotland in general, although many smokers were not i know

    As for drinking alcohol well alcohol and pubs here has always went
    hand in hand and i admit often playing until to much drink took its toll
    and then had to leave the board as drinking alcohol and Darts has always went hand in hand in Scotland i speak for here as im from Scotland
    but i realise its the same in the rest of Britain that darts and alcohol go hand in hand and always been when in a bar in Scotland then you buy alcohol

    there are some places here in Scotland that i know when say wanting to buy a soft drink like a coke for instance , others here you asking for a
    can of coke shall look at you as if to say WHAT A COKE IN A BAR
    and give you a weird look , they all think you should be buying a Whisky a Vodka or a Beer ..as they do tend to drink way over limits here i admit when out also , i think its a culture thing with alcohol in which the Government in Scotland is seen to try cut down with the consumption of such . BUT they wont win sadly as i see to many young lads n' lassies also
    drunk outa their minds and this is not nice but its true , see to many on our streets at the wkends laying on the ground through alcohol
    and they dont know what theyre doing to their Liver and such its sad really

    Dartboards were always as said steel tip and still are and shall be in Britain
    anyway this is about Darts Sorry folks
    Steel tip Dartboards are hung up on a wall at 5ft 8" exactly between floor and bullseye and thrown from a distance of 7ft 9 and a 1/4 inches as is on the pro - circuit and always is right on with the measurements these days and now also always have the oches raised on match days a little
    unlike yrs back where i noticed some guys would stand with their foot over the line , and a knew one guy in particular whom did such when playing myself in the final of a tournament which i just lost 2/1 and hitting a 148 check out to take the lead with a treble 20 treble 16 and dble tops , then following game was anyones with some missed dbles with both of us

    he took that game and at 1/1 the final decider was even
    when this guy with his foot way over front of the line checked out a 152 , still was a nice finish but i didnt care as i knew i fluffed it in that 2nd game as shouldve won 2/0

    Years back the Oches were a distance away from board with the throwing
    at 7 ft 8 " so were then a little shorter distance them days

    But ye Darts has always normally only ever been steel tip played in pubs or in the home here in Britain. Smile
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    Erik
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    Joined: Jun 1, 2003
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    PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Interesting post Rowan and very insightful. THanks
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