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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Thoughts on leagues with a handicap.
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    Thoughts on leagues with a handicap.
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Thoughts on leagues with a handicap. Reply with quote

    Just curious how everybody feels about handicapping in the soft tip game.

    I live in an area where there are two different types of handicaps. One league you have darts taken away in the first (and sometimes second) round. The second you may start at a higher score than your opponent in '01 games or your opponent may recieve free marks in cricket.

    The second style, imo, is more fair to the lower level players where the first style tends to be easier on the higher level players. I have found though that due to strategy, a handicap in cricket doesn't hurt the higher level player as much as it does in '01.

    I am a bit mixed on the subject since I know that as a league organizer that having a handicap will allow the lower level players to be more competative against the higher level players which will encourage them to actually sign up for the league. However the handicap doesn't encourage the lower level player to get better.

    How do you feel about handicaps? Do you play in a league with a handicap?
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    Crash336
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Handicaps

    I'm not a fan, I like fact that the largers Asian tornaments are open events. I think Bullshooter does an ok job, you win you move up. This keeps a lot of the crap down. I don't see how a Dartlive type system (keeps track every time you play by a ATM style card) would work to well with all the home practice/play done in the US (I will keep an open mind on this since I have not played on the system). The Metalist system in theory is good, however even if you are straight up - if you WIN you are often accused of cheating - I guess because so much of this occurs. They also pit all level against each other - this can just kill motivation on getting better and spark motivation on how to work the system.

    You want handicap, play in a LOD. I one time got a elder women partner who was taked into playing to even the brackets. Turns out she had just come off shoulder surgery so had to thow with her left arm (she was right handed). She could stick maybe 2 of 3 darts a pass. I threw the best darts of my life and we won... it was awesome. (we lucked into a easy bracket, and a lot of breaks fell our way).


    oh, to answer you specific question, I would never like a system that take darts from my pass. I would play in a league to better my game, sure I like to win but my goals are not local. I want to play well at bigger events so give em points are marks - just give me 3 darts.
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Just to clarify you get all three darts for most of the match. The only time you would not throw all three of your darts is in the first and sometimes second round. After that you get all three. The vendor I play for is one of only 2 that I know of in the state that does the ppd and mpr style handicaping. During the state tournament where all vendors send players there is no handicap, just levels of play based on your "CDA"...btw don't ask me what CDA stands for, nobody I have ever asked seems to know...

    If somebody knows for certain please inform me. Not even my vendor seems to know LOL I am sure the D stands for Darts and the A is average, however the C is up in the air...complete, competative, cumulative...ect. Doesn't matter, I am heading into state with a 5.x or close to 6, which will have me in the "B" events. I would need a 7 CDA in '01 and an 8 in cricket for the Masters events.
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Handicapping is probably the single most important reason why I do not play soft tips.

    As a competitive player who grew up taking a beating over and over again until I got good enough to compete, I never could get used to or comfortable with a handicapping system.

    So I guess I can't help Wink
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Handicapping is the only way to go! How else are you going to get people to play? No one wants to lose again and again in a silly attempt to actually get good at the game! Just imagine what that would do to ones ego! The HORROR! I simply shudder to even think about it. Why would anyone bother to get good? That is pure crazy talk!!!!!! Seems like a lot of effort for no reason if everyone can be equal by design! This is the NEW American way! I also think that coin drop should be more fair…….. Why should poor people pay such a disproportionate amount of their limited funds to play this wonderful game when rich people have all the money. Occupy dartstreet!!!!!!!! I think everyone in the bar should empty their pockets onto the bar. Then everyone’s coin drop is taken out of the communal pile of money on the bar and at the end of the night what remains of the money should be divided EVENLY amongst ALL of the players regardless of how much they put in initially. AHHHHH Utopia.
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    AmericanBadAss
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Good Lord SM..I have missed you so much. I love this post brother..you know I feel the same way being a steel player in MA (where there is no soft tip).

    Question on the coin drop..does each player pay a set amount for each game? I ask because I played a lot of video games in my days..the game Mortal Kombat was an old favorite. In the arcade you could play against another person, loser paid to play again and winner stayed.
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    AmericanBadAss wrote:

    Question on the coin drop..does each player pay a set amount for each game?


    Yes, each player generally pays a set amount depending on the game. On the boards I usually play on, the per player fee is $.25 for a 10 round game of high score, $.50 for 301, $.75 for 501 and Cricket.

    Other games vary but those are the main ones people play. This year for our state tournament they are doing something a little different then they have in years past. There will be no coin drop during the tournament itself, instead they replaced it with a $12 green fee per person per event which is due at sign up. This is a good thing for the players who will go deep into the tournament, but not as good if you get beat out right away. However all the boards will be set to free play all weekend so if you want to throw some practice games you won't have to pay.
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    JohnP
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Lol - Shannonmiles was the first person I thought of when I saw this thread.

    I played handicapped soft-tip for several years before switching to steel. Never cared for the handicapping, really - too much whining about sanbagging, etc. And I never felt much accomplishment for beating someone better than me ... when I didn't play better. Didn't care much for losing when I outshot my opponent, either.

    That said, I had fun playing. Just always thought of the handicap as a nuisance.
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    JohnP
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    CDA = cyber dart average Wink
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    5uperman
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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    seems like kid stuff.
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    Crash336
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Once again, let use any topic to poke fun at Soft Tip. I think this is ironic when the Steel Tip Handicapping has been discussed at lenght here. Any League that has division is handicapped - and apparently "Sandbagging occurs" from what I have been reading because player do not what to step up there play and advance to a higher division.
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    5uperman
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    a league with divisions is NOT handicapped... everyone is still playing the exact same game with the exact same rules.

    when a player in a lower division than me plays me in a tournament, we play the same game... the EXACT same game. not handicapped.
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    podge
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Crash336 wrote:
    Once again, let use any topic to poke fun at Soft Tip. I think this is ironic when the Steel Tip Handicapping has been discussed at lenght here. Any League that has division is handicapped - and apparently "Sandbagging occurs" from what I have been reading because player do not what to step up there play and advance to a higher division.


    Yes I agree sandbagging does happen in steel tip. teams do lose matches to avoid moving up to the next division
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    AmericanBadAss
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    podge wrote:
    Crash336 wrote:
    Once again, let use any topic to poke fun at Soft Tip. I think this is ironic when the Steel Tip Handicapping has been discussed at lenght here. Any League that has division is handicapped - and apparently "Sandbagging occurs" from what I have been reading because player do not what to step up there play and advance to a higher division.


    Yes I agree sandbagging does happen in steel tip. teams do lose matches to avoid moving up to the next division


    Right, but the individual player can do it in soft tip much easier from my understanding.
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The one thing that I have noticed about the obvious sandbaggers in my area is that they don't do it so much for a benefit in the league, but so that they are placed in a lower division at the state tournament.

    They say that all the sandbaggers are in the "C" division and it is noticable when C players are playing better than B players.

    Now while it is certainly easier for a soft tip player to sandbag, at least in my area they don't get any respect and generally don't win much anyway. You only really get any respect if you compete in the masters division so that is where most players who take the game seriously try to get to. Including myself, however I'm not quite there yet.
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    podge
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Let's face it soft tip is a <edited - by DT>

    * No need to "bait" or insult anyone


    See user code of conduct at:
    http://www.dartplayer.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3036
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    podge wrote:
    Let's face it soft tip is a <edit - by DT>


    Care to elaborate on that?
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    podge
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    As my previous post has been edited by someone who's initials are DT

    It appears I am not allowed to elaborate. I thought you had free speach over there
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    Dart_talker
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    podge wrote:
    As my previous post has been edited by someone who's initials are DT

    It appears I am not allowed to elaborate. I thought you had free speach over there


    If you want to carry on this conversation via PM you are entirely welcomed to, but there is no need for insulting others on this forum.

    Dart_talker aka DT.
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The one thing I will say about handicaping in soft tip is that while it doesn't encourage players to try to get better, it encourages players who are more casual players to actually form a team and play.

    Not everybody has the desire to be the best, they just want something to do on a <insert day here> night with some friends and maybe they don't want to lose all the time. At the same time they don't have the desire or time to put into the game that some of the rest of us do.

    I would likely not be a dart player if it wasn't for soft tip handicaped leagues. The two people who I credit to getting me interested in darts where casual dart league players.

    Those people who have the drive to get better are going to have the drive no matter if there is a handicap or not. Those people who don't have the drive will likely not stick around in a league where they are constantly losing because they don't have the desire to improve their skill in the game.

    I play soft tip, mainly due to the fact that is all I have access to. However I love to play darts, I have a steel tip board hanging right next to my soft tip board. I have never played American darts but I would probably enjoy that just as much as english style. I just love darts. I am a dart player...not a soft tip player, not a steel tip player...I am a DART PLAYER. Doesn't matter what I am throwing my darts at...I just love to throw them.
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DaIceBerg wrote:
    I just love darts. I am a dart player...not a soft tip player, not a steel tip player...I am a DART PLAYER.
    I understand this sentiment. I too will play whatever is available. However, I will only play if there are no handicaps involved. If I am to win it is a true victory..... if I am to lose I would have been bested by the better player. Those lost games over the past 20+ years are what made me try to be a better player.
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Erik wrote:
    Handicapping is probably the single most important reason why I do not play soft tips.

    As a competitive player who grew up taking a beating over and over again until I got good enough to compete, I never could get used to or comfortable with a handicapping system.

    So I guess I can't help Wink


    Goodness, i've been SO Facebook brainwashed...
    I went hunting for the "LIKE" button when i read this....
    so i'll give you a SEWA reply,
    "AMEN, Erik!"
    .....you SO need to install a LIKE button
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    AmericanBadAss
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    PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    DaIceBerg wrote:
    I just love darts. I am a dart player...not a soft tip player, not a steel tip player...I am a DART PLAYER.
    I understand this sentiment. I too will play whatever is available. However, I will only play if there are no handicaps involved. If I am to win it is a true victory..... if I am to lose I would have been bested by the better player. Those lost games over the past 20+ years are what made me try to be a better player.


    I play steel because there is no soft tip in my area..seen one soft tip board and it was in what I would consider an arcade area. If soft tip was around I'd likely at least give it a try in a non-handicapped fashion.

    My first problem would be getting used to the weight of the darts. I threw a 26-27 for many years and still use a 25 or 24, can't really throw anything lighter.

    My second problem is, like SM said, the losing of games is a part of what drives me to improve. I am a decent bad shooter Wink I don't want to beat a better player with a handicap given to me, since I won't feel I earned the win. I also don't want to have to spot someone marks or points because they are not as good as me. No offense, but I play for about an hour a day to try and improve. If the game isn't that important to another person that's fine, not everyone wants to put that time in or maybe just doesn't have it. But that said, I shouldn't be punished for being "too good" by spotting that guy just so he can have a fair chance.

    It ranks right up there for me with the game of pool. I've never played in a league or tournament, but started playing at age 9 and my father would crush me every game. I once jokingly said "why don't you let me win?" He got a serious expression on his face and said "if I 'let' you win, you aren't winning anything!" That plus the fact that I enjoyed the game led me to get up at 5am 2-5 of the 5 weekdays and play for 2 hours before I had to get ready for school, and in no time I was beating him.
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    Erik
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    podge wrote:
    Let's face it soft tip is a <edited - by DT>

    * No need to "bait" or insult anyone


    See user code of conduct at:
    http://www.dartplayer.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3036


    We have a forum called 'Just sayin' which you have to ask to join. It is an adult only forum where you can pretty much speak your mind all you want with any language. However, here in the rest of the forum the moderators try to keep the place clean for everyone. It's a family friendly site as much as we can make it.

    So, if something is edited out, please be respectful of the moderators and take it to the just sayin forum if you must vent.

    Thanks
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    podge
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Where is the Just Sayn forum I want to join. You must have it hidden away somewhere
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