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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - All the practice you need to do is shoot at the T20
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    All the practice you need to do is shoot at the T20
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    CraigB
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: All the practice you need to do is shoot at the T20 Reply with quote

    Just for the sake of discussion, I've had a couple of people say that practicing anything except shooting at the T20 is a waste of time. They figure that, if you can hit the T20, then you should be able to hit any other target and that any time wasted throwing at those other targets is practice time lost.

    Now, personally, I'm sure there are a few on here who can remember when I could hit LOTS of points but missed most of my outs (and lost most of those games). Needless to say, that puts me in the camp that you should practice more than just spending all your time shooting at the T20.

    What about the rest of you?
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    barjo
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I can see their point to a degree, but I think it is important to mix in a variety of practice routines in order to keep from being too bored, if nothing else.

    My league plays only 501 so you'd think I would practice my outs, but I rarely do. Instead I work mainly on my throw, trying to follow through more consistently. I've always seemed to hit my outs fairly well, and moving from one number to another doesn't affect me much. My problem is consistency and follow-through in my throw. The bulk of my practice currently is playing 501 games/sets (a win is 18 darts or less), and in the games I still throw at other numbers often enough.

    I would never throw at one sole spot on the board and nothing else, but if someone does this and is able to hit the T20 with consistency and can translate that to winning real games against opponents, who's to say that it's wrong?

    I think the key is recognizing what one's weak areas are, and working on them properly. Practicing outs games like Catch 40 is good for keeping the mind sharp, but if you're throwing well at any number, you should theoretically be able to throw well at any other number. Regardless, I would never recommend just the T20 for newbies because they need to learn the whole board first.
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    Dart_talker
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I've had games where my ability to hit 20's just vanished, but was able to hit doubles for the win! So I would say that one needs to spend time working on 2-3 dart out finishes as well as t20's.
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    dayjobdave
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I'm pretty much in the camp that the best way to get better is to throw at many targets and focus on hitting them. shooting at one number would never work for me.

    Practice your doubles, practice spot shooting, practice scoring, but I would not practice just shooting at T20.

    Just my .02.
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    BobCat
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The people that said they only practice on T20 obviously don't play for money. If they do, please give their name and number...
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Bogus

    You know why that doesn't work for me? When I start out cold for the night, hitting the treble 20 is a feat sometimes. What it takes for me to be able to hit it on the reg (eastbound and down reference) is actually going around the board throwing at the different angles of the board through cricket numbers and ending on the bullseye. Finding the tunnel. Then when I finally go back up to the treble 20, it's TONS easier to hit. :-p

    *pun intended
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Oh and also, there is such a thing as number fatigue.
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    Thorn
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Yeah, I disagree, although obviously it's vital, kinda like making your free throws. But, I personally think it's much better to shoot the same way every time, while directing your throw, versus just hitting the same target...many a time I've been drilling the trip twenty but got cold on all the other cricket numbers or on doubles...
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    MADMIKE
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    For one I would get bored just shooting at one thing real fast.10-15 minutes I would be done throwing for the day.I need to shoot all over the board.
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    Taechon
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    PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I could not agree less.
    You hit what you practice. Confidence in hitting a D-9 for an 18 out or the D-3 because that was the out you you got left, is not the same thing as hitting a T-20. Pounding the T-20 just goes against my philosophy of practice.

    "If you want to hit 7-marks in the cricket numbers, you have to practice seven-marks. If you want to hit doubles, you have to practice doubles. If you want to hit D-Bull, you have to practice hitting D-Bull. You hit what you practice."
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Trips for show.... Doubles for dough!!!
    Practice your doubles a lot!!! Very Happy

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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I am a prime example...I do practice my doubles alot...but still suck at them. I can hit and score with the best of them...through 6 weeks of league I have 11-180s so far...yet I have a losing record because I flail 12 darts at a double. So I am a strong proponent of practicing every number..not just the t-20. I just have to find that mental button and push it so my doubles would start to find their home. I feel like Craig said. that practicing only the t-20 will set you up to look cool scoring and then look like a fool missing tons of darts at doubles. Or at other cricket numbers
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I believe there is certainly a difference between throwing on T 20 and throwing at any other number.

    At least my throwing arm doesn't seem to adapt only because I practice one number a lot to beeing able to hit every number on the board.

    Might be such people exist but for me it seems to be necessary to practice all the numbers.... Sad
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I would think if all you practice is on 20's, hitting treble 18's would be pretty darn hard as it's such an awkward angle anyway.
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I guess I am in the middle camp. When I was shooting at my best, I also scored the best and the consistency/mechanics/throw was all there and I did not deviate from the basic throw. That was pretty much all built around 501 games with the obvious T20 bias. So, in times where the mechanics don't work quite right and the darts are flying left and right, back to basics is what I do. It does not necessarily have to be T20. Anything Vertical on the board will help although for me T20 has been my choice. When I have those kind of issues, I don't want to move targets at all. Same, same, same.
    When I'm not in that rut, then I practice all numbers on the board.

    So, therefore, I don't think there really is a right or wrong answer. I know there will be a bunch of people that will say that's wrong because they would become better if they did exactly what they say is the best Smile Whatever works for you is what you should do, just keep it up and do it consistently! I am sure if you asked the top 100 in the PDC rankings, some people almost always practice outs, some almost always practice scoring and some in between and probably some work all numbers. I like variety, but at present time I know I need to practice heavy scoring!
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    CraigB
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    CannonFodder wrote:
    ...I am sure if you asked the top 100 in the PDC rankings, some people almost always practice outs, some almost always practice scoring and some in between and probably some work all numbers. ...


    It does make me curious. I haven't shown or talked about this thread to the main person who tried to say that this is all the best players practice yet, but I still haven't seen a reply that agrees with him. I won't mention his name because I don't want to embarrass Ian (or let anyone know that he's Welsh). Twisted Evil Laughing
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: All the practice you need to do is shoot at the T20 Reply with quote

    CraigB wrote:
    Just for the sake of discussion, I've had a couple of people say that practicing anything except shooting at the T20 is a waste of time. They figure that, if you can hit the T20, then you should be able to hit any other target and that any time wasted throwing at those other targets is practice time lost.

    Now, personally, I'm sure there are a few on here who can remember when I could hit LOTS of points but missed most of my outs (and lost most of those games). Needless to say, that puts me in the camp that you should practice more than just spending all your time shooting at the T20.

    What about the rest of you?




    Using this logic, why shoot at the T20 at all? Why not practice shooting just at the T12? Or just at the double 7? Just shoot, over and over, at the D13 for two straight hours. If you can hit those targets, you should be able to hit anything on the board. Right?

    Wrong. You are fooling yourself, if you think that shooting a D3 is the same shot as shooting at a D18, or that shooting a T20 is the same as shooting for a T16. They are all completely different shots, along different lines or angles, that require you to make adjustments from target to target. If you practice throwing solely at one target, over and over, you will never train yourself to properly make those adjustments. In a game where success or failure can be determined by the width of a wire, you had better be pretty good at being able to make those pinpoint adjustments from throw to throw, and target to target, or you will be very disappointed in your game.

    I feel it is absolutely crucial to develop every aspect of your game. To do this, you must practice every target, in every quadrant on the board. Triples, doubles, bulls, different segments, and different elevations and angles. That is strictly speaking from the point of working on your targets. This is not even to mention developing proper form, accuracy, grouping, mental game, strategy, outshot combinations, developing focus and concentration, etc., etc.. It's an endless list. If you honestly believe that endlessly pounding the T20, or any one target, is going to develop you as a player, good luck with that. I've never heard of something so ridiculous.

    Perhaps, George S. can come out with a new book and title it: "How to Master the Sport of Darts Vol. III: Pound the T20". It will be two pages long. On one page, it will say, "To master this sport, focus on the T20, and hit it." On the next page, there will be a picture of someone at the oche, about to throw their third dart into the T20 for a 180. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    CraigB
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Who knows? Maybe he could fill up a couple more pages with different techniques on hitting the T20.

    "Method 1 - Filling the T20 from left to right. Method 2 - Filling the T20 from right to left. Method 3 - Overstacking. Method 4 - Understacking..."

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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    i will base my response on my practical experience. I am not consitantly heavy scorer in my steal tip league however i practice my doubles and outs from 100 down quite frequently. I cant tell you how many games I have won becuase I could hit the out and the person that had stormed down to an out either didnt know the proper outshots and lost their focus trying to figure it out or just couldnt hit a double. in my opinion i dont see where just practicing t20 will get you where you need to be. Also if you are in a DIDO format 01 game all the trip 20s in the world dont get you started.
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    PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Bottom line is this. If you only practice hitting the T-20, that will be the only number you will be able to consistently hit. You have to practice all numbers to become consistent on the board in all phases of the game.

    So in my opinion, if you only practice hitting the 20, you are only fooling yourself, if you really think that's all you need to throw at in practice.
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    PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    You're better off practicing nothing but doubles. If you can't finish it doesn't matter how well you score.
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    ECM wrote:
    You're better off practicing nothing but doubles. If you can't finish it doesn't matter how well you score.


    And if you can't score, it doesn't matter how well you can finish. (Unless your opponent sucks worse than you). Both are necessary, but being unable to finish is more frustrating.

    There's a thread that explains well why practicing one target wouldn't work. That wasn't the topic of the thread, but the comments, including one from George, apply. I can't copy the link on my phone, but the thread is in the 3rd page of Flight School forum, entitled "Accuracy", started by Charis and last posted 10/29/07.

    Reading George's comment, I can see why Ian would believe one target is enough - he never shoots downward Wink
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    PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    JohnP wrote:
    Reading George's comment, I can see why Ian would believe one target is enough - he never shoots downward Wink


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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    If I practice D11, I am confident I can hit D6 as well. Horizontal adjustments can be a simple matter of stance. Vertical adjustments are in the throw, though, so I believe you really need to practice throwing at targets of different vertical positions.

    Personally, I am an 01 guy more than a cricket player. Maybe that's because I spend more practice time working doubles and outs than other things. Either that, or I just play games.

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    PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hot Rod Harrington once said "just keep pounding the triple twenty the doubles will come"
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