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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Whats the best way, in your opinion
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    Whats the best way, in your opinion

     
    Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dartplayer Dot Net Forum Index -> MINUTE MAN Dart League (MMDL)
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    How do you keep the top division competitive
    a) You can't have both, so why try
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    b) make it all areas, one division
    17%
     17%  [ 6 ]
    c) allow only 3 S.A. shooters per roster
    22%
     22%  [ 8 ]
    d) who gives a rats ass, just play darts
    60%
     60%  [ 21 ]
    Total Votes : 35

    Author Message
    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Whats the best way, in your opinion Reply with quote

    The question is, what is the best way to keep the MMDL's top division, while at the same time keep it competitive as well. I know a lot of ideas have have come across here, and I would like them to be brought up again, to refresh everyone's memories. Maybe something good can come out of it. And if you don't like any of the choices, add your own, as I did have other as the last choice, but I guess it was to many.
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I voted for b, but am not opposed to c. I think if rosters stay as they are, then the best way to do it is all one division. At least the competition will be better.
    But in my mind, c makes a lot of sense, and would afford for more teams to be put together.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Perfect world, only 3 per team. That bring up a very slippery slope as a league organizer so I think just play.

    That said, a footnote..put teams that belong there, either by makeup or by virtue of last season's performance. They play there or they don't play. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's my thoughts as an AD.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Well I voted D and it speaks for itself. We have six teams in each S.A. division this season and a new format. Let it go and let it happen. I've gotta call you out on this one Frank. I find your banter to be double speak. Your going on and on about breaking up the Stacked teams and 10 other ways to level the playing field but look which team you chose to shoot on this year.

    You could have shot on many other lesser teams than Makin Treble and probably added 2 points a night to their match total but you didn't. You want to try and win a championship as badly as anyone else. Even Derek when his team had fallen apart, himself admits he had many offers to play on other teams but he's chosen not to. I accept his reasoning but it doesn't change the fact that had he played for one of the "lessor" teams that made him offers, he would have made those teams better thereby doing his part to help level the playing field. It's the old adage, actions speak louder than words. I can count on one hand the people that are complaining about the S.A division for this upcoming season and the spring.
    The league has done their part by changing the format and making sure there are 6 team in each division. Now it's up to the individuals. Teams like the Assassins, McGuire's, and my team have stepped up. We are poised for a one team up, one team down scenario in S.A. like the old days. All is well, lets play darts.

    In the words of Clara from the old Wendy's commercials.................
    WHERE'S THE BEEF Shocked
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shocked I put a team together and next season cause they all played Super A we have to break up??? I think not..

    Now if you(Frank) were to go put a team together you would have no problem, just as Bucky, Fred, Walsh, Pmack, Finnegan, Downey, would have and I had no problem..Again what I would suggest is mandatory playing time for anyone that shows up on a roster..That would take the stacked out of the issue except for the groups that are afraid to play against one another on their own and from what I can see they all play together on 2 teams..This is a joke by the way but it really is true.. Laughing Laughing I think a lot of the bigshots are more worried about what their teammates are doing instead of getting the job done themselves... Laughing Laughing
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy wrote:
    Well I voted D and it speaks for itself. We have six teams in each S.A. division this season and a new format. Let it go and let it happen. I've gotta call you out on this one Frank. I find your banter to be double speak. Your going on and on about breaking up the Stacked teams and 10 other ways to level the playing field but look which team you chose to shoot on this year.

    You could have shot on many other lesser teams than Makin Treble and probably added 2 points a night to their match total but you didn't. You want to try and win a championship as badly as anyone else. Even Derek when his team had fallen apart, himself admits he had many offers to play on other teams but he's chosen not to. I accept his reasoning but it doesn't change the fact that had he played for one of the "lessor" teams that made him offers, he would have made those teams better thereby doing his part to help level the playing field. It's the old adage, actions speak louder than words. I can count on one hand the people that are complaining about the S.A division for this upcoming season and the spring.
    The league has done their part by changing the format and making sure there are 6 team in each division. Now it's up to the individuals. Teams like the Assassins, McGuire's, and my team have stepped up. We are poised for a one team up, one team down scenario in S.A. like the old days. All is well, lets play darts.

    In the words of Clara from the old Wendy's commercials.................
    WHERE'S THE BEEF Shocked


    Whats a matter?? You don't think I stepped up back in june to put my group together??? Tell me how many feared shooters I have on my roster??? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Well I know most all of us are afraid of Kirby just to look at him, and that breath of his after a fireball yikes!

    Just kidding Kirbs..and yeah your team is one I will be liking to see..got some real talent there.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy wrote:
    Well I voted D and it speaks for itself. We have six teams in each S.A. division this season and a new format. Let it go and let it happen. I've gotta call you out on this one Frank. I find your banter to be double speak. Your going on and on about breaking up the Stacked teams and 10 other ways to level the playing field but look which team you chose to shoot on this year.

    You could have shot on many other lesser teams than Makin Treble and probably added 2 points a night to their match total but you didn't. You want to try and win a championship as badly as anyone else. Even Derek when his team had fallen apart, himself admits he had many offers to play on other teams but he's chosen not to. I accept his reasoning but it doesn't change the fact that had he played for one of the "lessor" teams that made him offers, he would have made those teams better thereby doing his part to help level the playing field. It's the old adage, actions speak louder than words. I can count on one hand the people that are complaining about the S.A division for this upcoming season and the spring.
    The league has done their part by changing the format and making sure there are 6 team in each division. Now it's up to the individuals. Teams like the Assassins, McGuire's, and my team have stepped up. We are poised for a one team up, one team down scenario in S.A. like the old days. All is well, lets play darts.

    In the words of Clara from the old Wendy's commercials.................
    WHERE'S THE BEEF Shocked


    I have to call you out as well jakesy. Wasn't it you that said I should play with M.T.? So what am I to believe? You say I should, and now you say I am wrong for doing so. Kind of a double edged sword, don't you think. As for winning Championships, been there, done that. Could care less anymore. I am out to have fun, and compete, that's it. If what ever team I am playing on happens to win, that's great, but it certainly isn't my top priority, by no means.
    So you can think what you want of me, I really don't care. I know why I play this game, and that's all that matters to me. Thaaaaaat's right Laughing
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    DEREK
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    And Jakesy...a few of the offers that I had...were from teams that will contend for a state title or be a final 4 in the very least...Only 2 teams that were not "Stacked" asked me to play...you and Steve O's original team. I could have played with you or Steve...but it wasn't the group I wanted or the venue I wanted...i could have easily joined a stacked team and tried to win...but it wasn't what I wanted out of league...i wanted to play with a specific few shooters that were willing to move up and play SA..it fell apart...

    as far as the assassins volunteering...they would have been moved up reguarldless so it really didn't make a difference...and the MCQuires team is a legit SA team...so they didn't really "step up" when you look at the 6 in SA they are the best 6 that were in on the south shore...so know one really "Steppped up" in my book...had a team like death Row volunteered..yeah they would have been stepping up, because there are better teams out there than them...but when you have the top 6 that are available...there is no "Stepping up" ...when you volunteer for a spot you would have been forced to take anyways.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    [quote="kirby"]
    jakesy wrote:

    Whats a matter?? You don't think I stepped up back in june to put my group together??? Tell me how many feared shooters I have on my roster??? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    You know what Kirb's, i owe you an apology because I looked at your team as a given. But in reality your team has set the bar. Great competitive shooters and ALL great people who are fun to be around. I had the opportunity to play against and with 80% of all the up coming seasons S.A. shooters and I have never had as much fun playing darts. Win or lose it was always a great time. (although my team didn't lose much Laughing )
    When you look at this realistically, the league experimented for two seasons and now seems on track to have S.A. on cruise control.
    Make no mistake about it though Paul, If S.A is looked upon as a dysfunctional family, Your team will be the team that put the FUN back in DysFUNctional Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DEREK wrote:
    And Jakesy...a few of the offers that I had...were from teams that will contend for a state title or be a final 4 in the very least...Only 2 teams that were not "Stacked" asked me to play...you and Steve O's original team. I could have played with you or Steve...but it wasn't the group I wanted or the venue I wanted...i could have easily joined a stacked team and tried to win...but it wasn't what I wanted out of league...i wanted to play with a specific few shooters that were willing to move up and play SA..it fell apart...

    as far as the assassins volunteering...they would have been moved up reguarldless so it really didn't make a difference...and the MCQuires team is a legit SA team...so they didn't really "step up" when you look at the 6 in SA they are the best 6 that were in on the south shore...so know one really "Steppped up" in my book...had a team like death Row volunteered..yeah they would have been stepping up, because there are better teams out there than them...but when you have the top 6 that are available...there is no "Stepping up" ...when you volunteer for a spot you would have been forced to take anyways.



    Good post Derek, and all true.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    [quote="jakesy"]
    kirby wrote:
    jakesy wrote:

    Whats a matter?? You don't think I stepped up back in june to put my group together??? Tell me how many feared shooters I have on my roster??? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    You know what Kirb's, i owe you an apology because I looked at your team as a given. But in reality your team has set the bar. Great competitive shooters and ALL great people who are fun to be around. I had the opportunity to play against and with 80% of all the up coming seasons S.A. shooters and I have never had as much fun playing darts. Win or lose it was always a great time. (although my team didn't lose much Laughing )
    When you look at this realistically, the league experimented for two seasons and now seems on track to have S.A. on cruise control.
    Make no mistake about it though Paul, If S.A is looked upon as a dysfunctional family, Your team will be the team that put the FUN back in DysFUNctional Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


    You just keep an eye on Spin..Not one of our top players but he's certainly our biggest... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Go ahead and tell him that but make sure you tell him who said it... Wink Wink
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Mostly correct Wreck..the Maguires team was pretty much a lock as one of them yes.

    The Assassins yes were on the table as one of the names to be brought up..I'd rather not name other teams but Kev called me about getting me the bar's check and when I told him I was looking at who to take for teams he said "I'll make the decision for you Chris, my team will volunteer right now".
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    DEREK wrote:
    And Jakesy...a few of the offers that I had...were from teams that will contend for a state title or be a final 4 in the very least...Only 2 teams that were not "Stacked" asked me to play...you and Steve O's original team. I could have played with you or Steve...but it wasn't the group I wanted or the venue I wanted...i could have easily joined a stacked team and tried to win...but it wasn't what I wanted out of league...i wanted to play with a specific few shooters that were willing to move up and play SA..it fell apart...

    as far as the assassins volunteering...they would have been moved up reguarldless so it really didn't make a difference...and the MCQuires team is a legit SA team...so they didn't really "step up" when you look at the 6 in SA they are the best 6 that were in on the south shore...so know one really "Steppped up" in my book...had a team like death Row volunteered..yeah they would have been stepping up, because there are better teams out there than them...but when you have the top 6 that are available...there is no "Stepping up" ...when you volunteer for a spot you would have been forced to take anyways.


    Like I said in my post Derek, "I accept your reasoning". What I was saying was if you played on Steve's team they would've had a team and would've been far more competitive than the Assassins. You would've only made my team a little better, with Steve-O, you would've made a team. And don't be so sure the Assassins would've been forced up. When I left the team it took quite a few points off the board for them and they are far more evenly matched with a team like Death Row or the Vega now. They had a good argument they chose not to make as I'm sure ABA would agree.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Taking one point at a time, let's assume Super A will stay as a perennial division. I am assuming the other problem is stacked teams. That one or two teams are too strong for other teams to be competitive with them.

    How do you get away from stacked teams? If you agree that it is a problem for the league/division, some drastic action, guaranteed unpopular by some, will have to be taken.

    Every sport has perennial champions, dynasties. The solutions are to woo away some of the stars, or to get better yourselves in order to defeat them. If neither is happening, for whatever reasons, only imposed structure changes can disrupt the current powerhouses.

    A draft could be installed. Yeah, I know you want to play with your friends, but this is how you can make new ones.

    If the reasons for the rule change are laid out plainly, it may be accepted - assuming that the "have-nots" outnumber the "haves". If it is moved at the next League Meeting, you might get it passed.

    I wondered about other solutions, but I don't think you can force any migration - there are ways around any stipulation. A rule could be instituted that says a player cannot play for any one team for more than a set amount of time, etc, etc, but the top teams just swap players, or "new" teams are formed.

    If the stacked teams are broken up so that more people can experience winning, I bet the division has a better chance of staying alive. Plus, the combinations could be really interesting and a lot of fun.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    My answer is D.In my opinion,the league tried a new format for a couple of seasons and we all endorsed it.....it did not work for the majority of the membership.Now the BOD has done the best thing they could have done in changing back to 6-301 singles and 3 2 man 501's DIDO,along with the 2/3 crickets.9 points are up for grab in my opinion with the DIDO factor,this cuts thru the whole stacked team issue.The old format,in order to win it all...you had to be stacked,now you can win this thing with an experienced Captain who can finagle his roster and navigate around the crickets and get to the singles up or down 3-2.301 is a great equalizer for talent.Yes,you have to be good,but you can win match after match 6-5 with 4 good shots and a supporting cast.So lets just play darts and see what happens...IMHO there will be a major upset somewhere in the Super A play-offs this season,and that will energize Super A and bring even more into the fold.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Don't play MMDL any longer, but, couldn't resist posting on this. The MVDA based in the Lawrence area has come up with a unique solution I thought might be of interest, in regards to "stacked" teams or teams that are A or SA in makeup. They've BANNED them!The two best teams are no longer allowed to play in the league!

    These arguments I read about here are the same ones that have been going on for years and years. The fact is that the better players are usually friends with each other and that's how a team gets "stacked". Oh sure, a team might woo a particular player in order to strengthen a roster, but, by and large they are already pals. My vote would be D if I had a vote. While the idea of a draft certainly has appeal in an objective sense, the logistics all but preclude the idea.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:
    jakesy wrote:
    Well I voted D and it speaks for itself. We have six teams in each S.A. division this season and a new format. Let it go and let it happen. I've gotta call you out on this one Frank. I find your banter to be double speak. Your going on and on about breaking up the Stacked teams and 10 other ways to level the playing field but look which team you chose to shoot on this year.

    You could have shot on many other lesser teams than Makin Treble and probably added 2 points a night to their match total but you didn't. You want to try and win a championship as badly as anyone else. Even Derek when his team had fallen apart, himself admits he had many offers to play on other teams but he's chosen not to. I accept his reasoning but it doesn't change the fact that had he played for one of the "lessor" teams that made him offers, he would have made those teams better thereby doing his part to help level the playing field. It's the old adage, actions speak louder than words. I can count on one hand the people that are complaining about the S.A division for this upcoming season and the spring.
    The league has done their part by changing the format and making sure there are 6 team in each division. Now it's up to the individuals. Teams like the Assassins, McGuire's, and my team have stepped up. We are poised for a one team up, one team down scenario in S.A. like the old days. All is well, lets play darts.

    In the words of Clara from the old Wendy's commercials.................
    WHERE'S THE BEEF Shocked


    I have to call you out as well jakesy. Wasn't it you that said I should play with M.T.? So what am I to believe? You say I should, and now you say I am wrong for doing so. Kind of a double edged sword, don't you think. As for winning Championships, been there, done that. Could care less anymore. I am out to have fun, and compete, that's it. If what ever team I am playing on happens to win, that's great, but it certainly isn't my top priority, by no means.
    So you can think what you want of me, I really don't care. I know why I play this game, and that's all that matters to me. Thaaaaaat's right Laughing

    No Frank your misunderstanding my post. I have no problem with you playing for M.T. and yes I do want you to play for them. You on that team gives it a better shot at beating the 9, (S.Shore pride) Plus it gives me the opportunity to play against you. (thereby getting better through competition) What I said is it's double speak. it's just my opinion that it's hard to criticize stacked teams when chose to be on one. Not a big deal, I don't see a problem with stacked teams. I think the new format levels the playing field and addresses that. I don't ever want to be told who I get to play with and I don't want to be penalized for getting better. Lastly i think it's time to let it die and play darts. Your polls speak for themselves. the majority just want to play. Your still one of my favorite guys. this wasn't meant to offend you.
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    Triple-B
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I dont think there is any way to say or choose whats best for SA. I think it is all up to a person on what they want as a shooter. I played on teams for years with friends and found myself getting better and had to leave those friends behind do to they just didnt want the same thing out of the game as I did.Its hard to put a team together that will compete in SA with just friends although you will find you make enough dart friends by going to LOD's and tourneys that it is possible at the higher level.Now that I have won back to back State titles I have chosen to leave my team and join another team that is made up of not only friends but are also seasoned players that will add to the competition in the NS.Now this season should not be as boring for me as Frank says it will be for him because I get a chance at bringing my former team( THE 9 ) down a notch.
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    tripleb wrote:
    I dont think there is any way to say or choose whats best for SA. I think it is all up to a person on what they want as a shooter. I played on teams for years with friends and found myself getting better and had to leave those friends behind do to they just didnt want the same thing out of the game as I did.Its hard to put a team together that will compete in SA with just friends although you will find you make enough dart friends by going to LOD's and tourneys that it is possible at the higher level.Now that I have won back to back State titles I have chosen to leave my team and join another team that is made up of not only friends but are also seasoned players that will add to the competition in the NS.Now this season should not be as boring for me as Frank says it will be for him because I get a chance at bringing my former team( THE 9 ) down a notch.


    Billy, that is only 2 weeks out of the season though. What about the rest of the season. How does the other teams look on the N.S. competition wise.
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! enough is enough with all your SA bickering!!!! As PMACK would say STFU and play darts!!! Jesus no wonder why iv avoided this site for so long, you people are never happy! Me for one i just cant wait to get the real season started
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    D all the way, just STFU and play darts, I also agree with what Kirby said (I know agreeing with Goodie and Kirby in a weeks period) that if a player is on a Roster and shows up for a match he should participate in the match, not just as a scorer or beer runner actually throw some darts whether it is week 1 or Finals.

    I played in A last season and I must say it wasn't much fun, the competition level wasn't nearly as intense and the ball busting wasn't nearly as funny, I'm back in SA this season and I can't wait til next Tuesday.

    My team unlike others isn't stacked so we're going to have to play every week as if it is a playoff match
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chitown599 wrote:
    tripleb wrote:
    I dont think there is any way to say or choose whats best for SA. I think it is all up to a person on what they want as a shooter. I played on teams for years with friends and found myself getting better and had to leave those friends behind do to they just didnt want the same thing out of the game as I did.Its hard to put a team together that will compete in SA with just friends although you will find you make enough dart friends by going to LOD's and tourneys that it is possible at the higher level.Now that I have won back to back State titles I have chosen to leave my team and join another team that is made up of not only friends but are also seasoned players that will add to the competition in the NS.Now this season should not be as boring for me as Frank says it will be for him because I get a chance at bringing my former team( THE 9 ) down a notch.


    Billy, that is only 2 weeks out of the season though. What about the rest of the season. How does the other teams look on the N.S. competition wise.


    I dont know of all the teams or how many teams there are,but I do know that the Young Guns are a team that just won the A state championship and are not to be taken lightly.
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    tripleb wrote:
    Chitown599 wrote:
    tripleb wrote:
    I dont think there is any way to say or choose whats best for SA. I think it is all up to a person on what they want as a shooter. I played on teams for years with friends and found myself getting better and had to leave those friends behind do to they just didnt want the same thing out of the game as I did.Its hard to put a team together that will compete in SA with just friends although you will find you make enough dart friends by going to LOD's and tourneys that it is possible at the higher level.Now that I have won back to back State titles I have chosen to leave my team and join another team that is made up of not only friends but are also seasoned players that will add to the competition in the NS.Now this season should not be as boring for me as Frank says it will be for him because I get a chance at bringing my former team( THE 9 ) down a notch.


    Billy, that is only 2 weeks out of the season though. What about the rest of the season. How does the other teams look on the N.S. competition wise.


    I dont know of all the teams or how many teams there are,but I do know that the Young Guns are a team that just won the A state championship and are not to be taken lightly.



    I agree, any team that goes the distance can not be taken lightly, as with any team that volunteers to go up. With this new format, i could be in for a surprise here on the South, so maybe I have spoken a little early. It will be interesting to see how all works out. Good luck with your new team.
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    PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    What Frank said. The Assassins offered to jump for me and they have been a force for a while now..they could end up giving teams fits all season.
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