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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Should S.A teams break up to mentor the A division players?
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    Should S.A teams break up to mentor the A division players?
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    Should S.A. teams break up to mentor the A division players?
    Yes
    21%
     21%  [ 8 ]
    No
    71%
     71%  [ 27 ]
    Undecided
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     7%  [ 3 ]
    Total Votes : 38

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    Eddie_C
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Kirby ur still a wart on a frogs ass Laughing Laughing
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    we have already discussed that it must be a voluntary div...we have seen that forcing teams to play in the top div doesn't work...WeRSFaced and now mecca swamp box ar proof...Mecca has trouble getting 6 there every week (not an issue when they were in A and winning...nothing against them, but it can't be fun) and We R S faced got outright killed and lost some shooters because of it...as for the rest of the league moving up the winners works because there is far less of a difference from B-A or C-B than going from A - SA.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Eddie_C wrote:
    Kirby ur still a wart on a frogs ass Laughing Laughing


    Yep.. Wink
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Derek,
    The only flaw I see in lowering the roster sizes are it may cause those left off their S.A. rosters, to decide to play in A div.
    It's not far fetched to realize that a good number of those players, who will be told that they are no longer on the roster are true A division players in the first place.
    So theoretically speaking of course, this will not create the extra teams that we would be expecting. It would only cause us to lose more players. Don't get me wrong, I am all for smaller rosters, but I fear it won't net the results we all are hoping for.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    i hear you frank...Like I said though, i feel we could end up with 6 maybe 7 teams...I feel that a team like the Donkeys will become a good SA team...they have had 5 or 6 in the past that wanted to play SA and could...also I see the making treble team and our team forming at least 4 teams between us..maybe 3...so there are already 4 or 5 teams..now if the Seadogs follow suit and then also any up and comers like jakesy put in something...then we are talking...it would even the board..now as far as the other areas are concearned...Boston could fathombly putin 4-6 teams as well...and like wise for the north shore...central may be the only hang up...but for years when the old SA was around they didn't have any SA teams...so I don't see the big problem...At the very least i think it warrants at least a season to try or some REAL in depth investigation by the league before just offing it.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Speaking for myself I'm not opposed per se to SA being voluntary. That said unless and until it is shorter rosters sholdn't be the case. This could cause the same issue from several years ago in B, same couple of teams win the division over and over but don't/can't go up.

    FWIW I would love to see 6 SA teams per area.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Also i think you may see some old time players return because they don't have to have 9 guys to play...they can get together with 3 or 4 of their pals and have a team...then the short handed crap and so forth goies by the wayside...people may actually want to play every week when they know that they are needed and will be in contention...you fuse that with the single game of doubles 501 and there will be some real competition in the division and more of a chance for the upset that so many people are talking about.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    "Outsider looking in"
    I think a 4 man roster would be Great.
    * more playing time

    * not the same team every 3 weeks

    I want my 4 best shooters. Not my 4 best friends....
    The same group of players now in SA. Will be playing. Just divided up into smaller groups. People didn't leave, just playing against your old team mates.
    1 Solid 8 man team, or 2 (4) man teams. 8 Good guys are still there? Competition, didn't change....IMHO Shark
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Derek, Central not having SA may or may not have been an issue for SA, but I know for years A teams would complain about playing the Central A team in state's.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    can't please everyone...and if central wouldn't filed any teams in SA I would be shocked...
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't want to sound like an Arse and if I do so what, I've got years in this league over all of ya except for Capt. John.. Rolling Eyes

    You're issue is this, You have Super A, but the night is toooo long for "some" players as it stands now..Its voluntary yet teams get forced up when they did'nt want to and other teams that wanted to stay or move up were ignored and put where ever the powers to be wanted to put them..You want smaller rosters but the "match profile" would have to be changed..It would be totally different than the rest of the league..Smaller rosters means breaking up the 9 man roster as it now stands yet teams can't even field a full 6 man team on a regular night, so how are you going to field a 4 man team with those same players who won't be there every week???
    I could go on but I don't want to sound like I'm whinning..I'll play and captain a team in a nice sound A division where travel does'nt bother me and everyone on my team will play and we'll be home at a decent hour.. Wink
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    i think 4 man is too small 7 man would be good with the same format in 501 and cricket then go to 5 301s double in double out
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    we were saying 4 man minimum anda 6 man max....but the 301s suk in my opinion ...STEeeeeevvvvveeeeee ooOOOOOOO Laughing
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Derek, I agree that shorter rosters are the only "acceptable" answer to enhanced competition in S.A. any pros and cons are subjective and speculation but should be thought out. That said:

    PRO'S

    increased # of competitive teams

    ability to keep a hybrid of same format

    no need to force teams up. (hope the BOD wouldn't do that)

    easier for top level A shooters to put a competitive roster together and move up and be competitive voluntarily.

    CONS

    Will teams be willing to split and should they have to. (Sea Dogs?)

    Better competition in S.Shore but does it widen the gap in other div. particularly N.Shore.

    Can short rosters field a team night in night out

    Beyond the top 4 teams, will it cause a migration into the lower divisions?
    So while it will obviously work on the S.S. (two powerhouse teams)
    What's the effect on the other 3 div.
    Example: Right now N.Shore plays the 9 three times, beyond that all matches are pretty competitive. Split them now your playing the hybrid of them twice 4 times. Don't forget they barely got four teams together this season
    Will this create the opportunity for central to eliminate S.A. representation
    (Some have said Central doesn't want S.A.)

    I'd say put up a pole for S.A. shooters on if they'd split their team but you wouldn't get a good sample
    Maybe Trip B can answer this, Would the 9 split? I think they like what they've got.
    All tolled, I think there's still a lot of questions to be answered with short rosters
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Ok, heres a challenge to all of you.

    Build it. Build your 4 to 6 man roster now. Lets see how many teams we can get. Also, i still believe your going to have the same issues with lack of team as you do now. I would predict zero teams in Central (which is probably ok anyways) maybe 2 teams in Boston (I hope im wrong) maybe 3. The North could have 4 to 6, it could also have 1 or 2. If you want this to happen, as well as any Super A that has volunteer teams, you must recognize that your likely going to have to travel to Boston or the North Shore or combine those two areas. The other side effect will be "stacked" teams in A. This will happen. A group of good players that dont want to be beat up in Super A, will put in for A.

    But that doesnt mean that if you guys want a Super A, that it cant happen. I think if the players can demonstrate that they have the players and the numbers to sustain a small roster Super A, that they should start organizing it asap. Maybe even have a beta Summer season to work the kinks out. What say you?
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    im not a huge fan of the 301s either i like the format now but its a compromise to shorten the night and maybe give lesser teams a better shot at grabbing some points
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Skiz wrote:
    Ok, heres a challenge to all of you.

    Build it. Build your 4 to 6 man roster now. Lets see how many teams we can get. Also, i still believe your going to have the same issues with lack of team as you do now. I would predict zero teams in Central (which is probably ok anyways) maybe 2 teams in Boston (I hope im wrong) maybe 3. The North could have 4 to 6, it could also have 1 or 2. If you want this to happen, as well as any Super A that has volunteer teams, you must recognize that your likely going to have to travel to Boston or the North Shore or combine those two areas. The other side effect will be "stacked" teams in A. This will happen. A group of good players that dont want to be beat up in Super A, will put in for A.

    But that doesnt mean that if you guys want a Super A, that it cant happen. I think if the players can demonstrate that they have the players and the numbers to sustain a small roster Super A, that they should start organizing it asap. Maybe even have a beta Summer season to work the kinks out. What say you?


    That would mean that the "ones" that want to do it would have to bust up their teams "now" half way thru the season theoretically right??? Boy that should go over well.. Rolling Eyes If I saw more than 15 names willing to do it I'd be surprized, But its what has to be done if thats what they want..I'll be watching.. Wink Good post Adam..
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I really don't think it would be advantageous to put perspecctive teams out there before the present season ends. It's hard enough to get a full team to show up, without letting players know they won't be asked back. I would wait until the season and playoffs are over, before doing this. JMHO.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    kirby wrote:
    Skiz wrote:
    Ok, heres a challenge to all of you.

    Build it. Build your 4 to 6 man roster now. Lets see how many teams we can get. Also, i still believe your going to have the same issues with lack of team as you do now. I would predict zero teams in Central (which is probably ok anyways) maybe 2 teams in Boston (I hope im wrong) maybe 3. The North could have 4 to 6, it could also have 1 or 2. If you want this to happen, as well as any Super A that has volunteer teams, you must recognize that your likely going to have to travel to Boston or the North Shore or combine those two areas. The other side effect will be "stacked" teams in A. This will happen. A group of good players that dont want to be beat up in Super A, will put in for A.

    But that doesnt mean that if you guys want a Super A, that it cant happen. I think if the players can demonstrate that they have the players and the numbers to sustain a small roster Super A, that they should start organizing it asap. Maybe even have a beta Summer season to work the kinks out. What say you?


    That would mean that the "ones" that want to do it would have to bust up their teams "now" half way thru the season theoretically right??? Boy that should go over well.. Rolling Eyes If I saw more than 15 names willing to do it I'd be surprized, But its what has to be done if thats what they want..I'll be watching.. Wink Good post Adam..


    Which is why the issues of Super A seems to be and impossible ones.
    Seems no matter what opinions or proposals that are put forward the S.A. membership itself seems hellbent to shoot itself in the foot. It boggles the mind.

    Well said Skiz, your far more articulate than I
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Skiz wrote:
    Ok, heres a challenge to all of you.

    Build it. Build your 4 to 6 man roster now. Lets see how many teams we can get. Also, i still believe your going to have the same issues with lack of team as you do now. I would predict zero teams in Central (which is probably ok anyways) maybe 2 teams in Boston (I hope im wrong) maybe 3. The North could have 4 to 6, it could also have 1 or 2. If you want this to happen, as well as any Super A that has volunteer teams, you must recognize that your likely going to have to travel to Boston or the North Shore or combine those two areas. The other side effect will be "stacked" teams in A. This will happen. A group of good players that dont want to be beat up in Super A, will put in for A.

    But that doesnt mean that if you guys want a Super A, that it cant happen. I think if the players can demonstrate that they have the players and the numbers to sustain a small roster Super A, that they should start organizing it asap. Maybe even have a beta Summer season to work the kinks out. What say you?


    Skiz,
    I believe your proposal is backwards. IHMO, first the BOD should make its decision and formalize the format for Fall 2010. Then the league membership should organize based on the format as determined by the BOD.

    Having a large number of players create hypothetical teams for a hypothetical format makes no sense.

    Am I missing something here?
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Jeff, not speaking for Adam but I think he's trying to prove a valid point, there are just not enough players "Super A" included that would be willing to make this work..All he's saying is show me, seeing as he handles the Super A division himself..
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    kirby wrote:
    Jeff, not speaking for Adam but I think he's trying to prove a valid point, there are just not enough players "Super A" included that would be willing to make this work..All he's saying is show me, seeing as he handles the Super A division himself..


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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    kirby wrote:
    Jeff, not speaking for Adam but I think he's trying to prove a valid point, there are just not enough players "Super A" included that would be willing to make this work..All he's saying is show me, seeing as he handles the Super A division himself..



    Paul,
    At the risk of sounding like I'm whining, it just isn't a good idea to do this before the season ends, for obvious reasons.
    And not speaking for Jeff, I think what he wants is the league to make a decision, and have the players form their teams to conform with the league.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I hear all sides, showing your hand may alienate some players, and Jeff makes sense about what order things should be done, only that interest with numbers should be proven before we commit. Because if Super A as we know it is going to change, whether its a return to the old format (with two out of three cricket Smile ) or smaller teams, or a special A, Super A schedule. Something is going to be differant this fall. Just how different is going to be partically dictated by the interest in smaller rosters for Super A.
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't think Skiz is looking to have the small roster idea completely fleshed out, but does need more and better information to consider it as a real possiblity. Without some hard information, all ideas are equally realistic.

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