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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - 501 open in/open out OUTS CHART!?!?!?
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    501 open in/open out OUTS CHART!?!?!?

     
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    sodakmopar
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: 501 open in/open out OUTS CHART!?!?!? Reply with quote

    Do these not exist? I have spent hours upon hours trying to find an out chart for 501 open in/open out which is what my league plays. All I can find is double and triple out outs charts. I would be very grateful if someone would be able to direct me to a 501 Open in/Open out outs chart. I am a beginner and really struggling with my outs. Thank you.
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I don't recall ever seeing such a thing in the 20+ years I've been playing. While I'm sure there is some nuance in approaching single outs ……. a chart seems a bit of overkill to be frank. No offence intended.

    For the record I’m not a fan of out charts of any kind. They make for weak minds. Learning the “math” of the game is a far superior method than trying to memorize someone else’s silly chart.

    And welcome to the site Very Happy
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    sodakmopar
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    I don't recall ever seeing such a thing in the 20+ years I've been playing. While I'm sure there is some nuance in approaching single outs ……. a chart seems a bit of overkill to be frank. No offence intended.

    For the record I’m not a fan of out charts of any kind. They make for weak minds. Learning the “math” of the game is a far superior method than trying to memorize someone else’s silly chart.

    And welcome to the site Very Happy


    Thank you. I have a weak mind when it comes to math. I seriously need the help to get started. I am a beginner and do not have any outs memorized and it takes be forever to think of them when I am on the line. Also, I'm not sure that my particular combination is the best option mathematically. I began to make one myself but gave up about halfway through. What should the basic strategy be for 501 open in/open out? just get down to sub 180 and try to go out?
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    sodakmopar wrote:
    Shannonmiles wrote:
    I don't recall ever seeing such a thing in the 20+ years I've been playing. While I'm sure there is some nuance in approaching single outs ……. a chart seems a bit of overkill to be frank. No offence intended.

    For the record I’m not a fan of out charts of any kind. They make for weak minds. Learning the “math” of the game is a far superior method than trying to memorize someone else’s silly chart.

    And welcome to the site Very Happy


    Thank you. I have a weak mind when it comes to math. I seriously need the help to get started. I am a beginner and do not have any outs memorized and it takes be forever to think of them when I am on the line. Also, I'm not sure that my particular combination is the best option mathematically. I began to make one myself but gave up about halfway through. What should the basic strategy be for 501 open in/open out? just get down to sub 180 and try to go out?


    Are you playing steel or soft? I ask this only because anything that could be thrown together would be predicated on whether the Bull is 50(and huge) or split and small (steel)
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    sodakmopar wrote:
    What should the basic strategy be for 501 open in/open out? just get down to sub 180 and try to go out?


    I would say the short answer to this is YES. With open out finishing there are not many "bogey" outs 180 and below. Know what they are and try to avoid them with your set up darts (the throw that can get you below 180) just thinking about them quickly.... avoid 179,178,176,175,173,172,169,166,163....... and once below 180 (not on one of the aforementioned numbers there are almost always at least two ways to take the out with open finishing. Like I said in my opening response I am sure there is some nuance in the single out finishing but most "logical" out charts are designed to leave the finisher in a better situation “if” they miss the intended target "fat" where in single out the intended target IS a fat single.
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    Showboat00
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: 501 open in/open out OUTS CHART!?!?!? Reply with quote

    sodakmopar wrote:
    Do these not exist?

    I've never seen one. They probably don't exist because there are just too many equally good options. Most double out charts are developed to get you to preferred doubles (e.g. 16, 20.....) With open out, it wouldn't seem to matter much (getting out from 60 or 57 still requires one triple or three singles). I guess the strategy would be to get a triple out, but even if you don't land on the triple (say 59 or 58 ) you are still a triple-single or three singles away from the win. I'm not sure it would be worthwhile even going for the doubles unless you only had one dart left.
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I know it sounds silly at first but you MUST stop thinking of the board as Triples and Doubles etc think of it as numbers…..
    60,57,54,51,50,48,45, not….T20, T19, T18, T17, Bull, T16, T15 etc this is the key to really learning how to play this game.

    But you need to sit down and study and think about the game. You can study game scenarios and logical thinking about the game. Break it down into simple parts…… If you are a soft tip player then obviously the bull is your biggest ally….. so tailor your finishing around the bull. You can throw together quick simple charts like this one ….. ALL the while thinking about the whys……. Not just the numbers. The more you think away from the oche the less you have to whilst you are in the heat of battle.

    160: 50, 50, 60 In any order (IAO)
    157: 50, 50, 57 IAO
    154: 50, 50, 54 IAO
    151: 50, 50, 51 IAO
    150: 50, 50, 50 LOL …….IAO
    148: 50, 50, 48 IAO
    145: 50, 50, 45 IAO
    142: 50, 50, 42 IAO
    139: 50, 50, 39 IAO
    136: 50, 50, 36 (if you miss the D18 “fat” you have a one dart “fat” finish on your next turn as opposed to shooting the T12 and missing into the single 12 leaves 24 which requires either a Double or two darts to finish….. In this order
    133: 50, 50, 33 IAO
    130: 50, 50, 30 IAO
    127: 60, 50, 17 ITO because if you miss the T20 into the single you can change targets to the T19 and if you hit it you still have a Bull shot to win the leg.
    120: 50, 50, 20
    100: 50, 50
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    There are some single-out charts around. Google searching will find some (I found at least a couple that way years ago.) There is one at crowsdarts dot com. Watch for the split bull vs. non-split bull difference Shannonmiles mentioned, though - BIG difference in out shots between the two.

    There is some strategy to single outs, especially with a non-split bull. Beyond the math of what combination of targets will get you out, it's mostly just the order in which you throw at the targets, though. For example, and especially for a newer player, from 119 you don't go B, B, S19. You go B, S19, B to avoid the risk of busting. And there isn't much point to going at the T19 with the 2nd dart - the risk of missing the 19 wedge isn't worth having the fat 12 (at which you might bust) when you have a gigantic bull.

    Or, at least, that's the type of stuff I remember from years ago. It's been so long since I've played single out I'm not completely sure that's correct Embarassed
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    sodakmopar
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thank you for the help everyone. Very interesting reads. I play Soft Tip Fat Bullseye. I will work on getting together an outs chart. The last thing I'm struggling with is when should I try to go out? Anytime I get below 180? Or should I hit a couple more 50's and get below say, 100, before trying to go out?
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    calebjkeen
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    sodakmopar wrote:
    Thank you for the help everyone. Very interesting reads. I play Soft Tip Fat Bullseye. I will work on getting together an outs chart. The last thing I'm struggling with is when should I try to go out? Anytime I get below 180? Or should I hit a couple more 50's and get below say, 100, before trying to go out?


    Always play to put yourself in a position to go out as fast as possible.

    This is what can happen if you try to make things too 'perfect'...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35bDs364yFc
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    DaIceBerg
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Ah, soft tip outs, now this is something I can talk about Very Happy

    Weither or not you go for that big out (180) is going to be determined upon your comfort level, ability and situation you are in. If your opponent is near a check out you may need to at least attempt the shot.

    You certainly want to view your outshot with the bull in mind as your LAST dart...or your out dart if at all possible. With some exceptions when you are sub 100...example 82... would be 50, D16.

    Make sure you are shooting as few darts as possible. Example instead of shooting Bull Bull 20 for 120, shoot at the T20 first. If you hit you just need to hit again, if you miss into the single 20 then you move on to bull, bull.

    In the case of a number like 108. Shoot T18 first, you miss into the fat 18 you have Bull Double 20, if you hit you just need to hit again. Same for 102 with T17. Make your out using the fewest darts possible, this rings just as true for soft as it does for steel.

    127, in this order... T19, 20, Bull. Thrwo the T19 first because if you miss and hit the fat 19 you are left with 108 which is still a two dart out, even if you miss into the 7 you are on a two dart out. However if you throw at the 20 and hit into the 5 or 1 you can't finish that round.

    Generally speaking shooting a single as your last dart is not your best option since you are more likely to bust. Try not to leave yourself on an easily busted number. On those 100+ checkouts where you HAVE to throw a single it's for the best.

    Soft tip checkouts are a completely different animal from steel tip checkouts, that is why I struggle with steel tip checkouts and don't even have to think about my soft tip checkouts. It's just a mindset.
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    PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Hmm, double posts for the win!

    Last edited by DaIceBerg on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Did you have to talk about it 3 times? Wink
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    Did you have to talk about it 3 times? Wink

    3 was over the top. 2 is just stressing his point LMAO.

    BTW SM "I know it sounds silly at first but you MUST stop thinking of the board as Triples and Doubles etc think of it as numbers…..
    60,57,54,51,50,48,45, not….T20, T19, T18, T17, Bull, T16, T15 etc this is the key to really learning how to play this game": Is among the best advice given to me and I have heard for 501.
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    PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Didn't even notice that there was a double post, however it was so important that he should have read it multiple times...so ...umm.... Embarassed
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    PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I try to keep it simple, I fat bull down as far as I can , then seek an out shot. I will use the trip 17 if I'm off an out shot.
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    PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Here is a soft tip open out chart that gives a few options for each number. Some considerations to shooting good soft tip open outs are making sure that if you miss the triple that it's a single that still helps you and it's better to avoid shooting at a number with a busting triple right next to it when you probably have a similar 2 dart combination somewhere without a dangerous bust number.


    Shakey
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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    I know it sounds silly at first but you MUST stop thinking of the board as Triples and Doubles etc think of it as numbers…..
    60,57,54,51,50,48,45, not….T20, T19, T18, T17, Bull, T16, T15 etc this is the key to really learning how to play this game.


    ^^^ THIS 1000%

    check this out to get your brain going in the right direction:
    http://bayareadarts.com/downloads/board.jpeg
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    I know it sounds silly at first but you MUST stop thinking of the board as Triples and Doubles etc think of it as numbers…..
    60,57,54,51,50,48,45, not….T20, T19, T18, T17, Bull, T16, T15 etc this is the key to really learning how to play this game.

    But you need to sit down and study and think about the game. You can study game scenarios and logical thinking about the game. Break it down into simple parts…… If you are a soft tip player then obviously the bull is your biggest ally….. so tailor your finishing around the bull. You can throw together quick simple charts like this one ….. ALL the while thinking about the whys……. Not just the numbers. The more you think away from the oche the less you have to whilst you are in the heat of battle.

    160: 50, 50, 60 In any order (IAO)
    157: 50, 50, 57 IAO
    154: 50, 50, 54 IAO
    151: 50, 50, 51 IAO
    150: 50, 50, 50 LOL …….IAO
    148: 50, 50, 48 IAO
    145: 50, 50, 45 IAO
    142: 50, 50, 42 IAO
    139: 50, 50, 39 IAO
    136: 50, 50, 36 (if you miss the D18 “fat” you have a one dart “fat” finish on your next turn as opposed to shooting the T12 and missing into the single 12 leaves 24 which requires either a Double or two darts to finish….. In this order
    133: 50, 50, 33 IAO
    130: 50, 50, 30 IAO
    127: 60, 50, 17 ITO because if you miss the T20 into the single you can change targets to the T19 and if you hit it you still have a Bull shot to win the leg.
    120: 50, 50, 20
    100: 50, 50


    Wow i just joined this forum tonight looking to learn more to help me on my 501game. I just started playing soft tip darts this year and been doing pretty well in league but struggling when getting under 180 for my out numbers. This post has to be the best advice i could find it seems so simple but i never thought of looking at trips as a number like 57 54 51 ect i mean i know thats what they are but from now on im just gonna refer to the space as a number
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Welcome to SEWA Smokinjoe! It's great that you have joined SEWA and found it useful. There is a lot of great advice buried within these forums and in the minds of SEWA members. If you have a question, someone will either answer it, or point you to a past post that answers the question.
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    PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thats the great thing about SEWA; Many threads on here help you look at the game differently in a useful fashion. I have always said i would not have progressed at the rate I did if not for SEWA.
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