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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Soft Tip Pro's
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    Soft Tip Pro's

     
    Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dartplayer Dot Net Forum Index -> Soft tip/Electronic Leagues
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    Crash336
    Dart Staff Sergeant
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    Joined: Mar 23, 2009
    Posts: 396

    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Soft Tip Pro's Reply with quote

    I started a new topic since I read a lot of interesting takes in the handicapping post by DaIceBerg. I read my replay I was about to submit and realized I had drifted way off the original great topic. Shannonmiles brought out some great points (I respect) but wanted to comment on.

    I have a different take on the Pro Soft tip game. A lot of North Americans are hoping over to play is Asia. I wouldn't call it cherry picking since they are now producing excellent players in the region. Sure it’s all about money but I like the way they go about it - Asian Soft-tip companies are Sponsoring North Americans (tell me how many American have European sponsorship?). This makes travel to major events possible. Want to read about the economics of steel tip play for a North American - I suggest you reads David Fatums page, he all but gave up darts till the soft tip market has pull in back in.

    From a personal perspective I have spoken to Ron Heckman (Fit Flights) and Scotty Burnett (L-dart... Puma too) about their products they represent. I received very positive (and timely) responses. Tell me who you can call in US (Pro) you can discuss Unicorn, Winmau ..... (check responses in this Forum)

    As for the statement if soft tip was played in Europe they would dominate the game... Maybe, but today I believe John Part is on top of his game (did you see his outstanding play in the WC vs. Wade) He has won but has not dominated - he was ousted in the quarters at the World Soft Tip. He won one of eight tournaments leading up to the Worlds.
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    Shannonmiles
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    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 2348
    Location: North Dartmouth MA USA

    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I agree 100% that the level of completion is very high in the Professional soft tip world. No doubt at all. The game they are playing is awesome. It is straight up no holds barred fun! I have played against many of the Top US guys. Rob...Scotty.....Ray.....Paul etc and they are great players without a shadow of a doubt. Although it is theoretical I still stand by my hypothesis that if sisal became extinct tomorrow and the British guys were FORCED to play soft tip and ONLY soft tip it would be a new world order. It would not take those guys very long to pick up the slight nuance differences between the two games and they would dominate very quickly. IMHO

    My issues have never been with the game of soft tip per se.
    My issues have always been with handicaps. I have had some awesome times playing soft but they are ruined as soon as handicapping rears its head.

    The assertion that because we have successful American soft tip players then by extension .......handicapping produces world class play is a fallacious argument which caused my response in the other thread. I say that argument is a pile of poo to use someone else’s phraseology.
    The next logical step in that line of reasoning is ...... because we generally DON'T handicap steel tip darts is the reason WHY Americans fail at the International Steel level Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    BTW My son was a Fit Flight Player/Tester I hold Rob in the highest regard as I do with many of the players you mentioned.
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    podge
    Dart Corporal
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    Joined: Nov 28, 2011
    Posts: 108
    Location: London UK

    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    My opinion is Fatum, Heckman and others switched to soft tip because they realized their steel tip game wasn't up to the standards of the British and European players. They realized they couldn't make as much money playing steel as they could at soft tip.
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    Shannonmiles
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    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    podge wrote:
    My opinion is Fatum, Heckman and others switched to soft tip because they realized their steel tip game wasn't up to the standards of the British and European players. They realized they couldn't make as much money playing steel as they could at soft tip.


    A oversimplification to be sure. Talent is not the issue for these guys regarding making some noise of the PDC circuit. Geography/money is. Even for folks that LIVE in the UK need sponsors for the most part. For a North American to get a sponsorship that would come close to covering the costs of such an European adventure is almost an impossible. Without living and playing there ..... a non starter.
    _________________
    We are the dance band on the Titanic............

    They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned

    Screws fall out all of the time, the world is an imperfect place. John Bender
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    podge
    Dart Corporal
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    Joined: Nov 28, 2011
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    oversimplification I don't think so, how is it they can afford to travel to Asia?

    Wouldn't Heckman's sponsor's sponsor him to play in the UK?
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I would imagine that their sponsors ARE paying for that travel..Why would Asian sponsors pay them to go to the UK?
    _________________
    We are the dance band on the Titanic............

    They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned

    Screws fall out all of the time, the world is an imperfect place. John Bender
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    Shannonmiles
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    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    There are many reasons for the disparity between talent levels between the UK and the rest of the world in the game of darts. It start with a concentrated talent pool that has been fostered by a great grass roots system (BDO) over many years. Talent begets talent. Growing up playing the best in the world makes Champions of the future. Don't underestimate the SIZE geographically of England. It's the size of the Northeast area of the USA. That's a lot of talent in a small area. People that do not have these advantages are fighting a uphill battle.
    _________________
    We are the dance band on the Titanic............

    They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned

    Screws fall out all of the time, the world is an imperfect place. John Bender
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    podge
    Dart Corporal
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    Joined: Nov 28, 2011
    Posts: 108
    Location: London UK

    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    I would imagine that their sponsors ARE paying for that travel..Why would Asian sponsors pay them to go to the UK?


    I would imagine to promote their products to a vast majority of "grass roots players" residing in a small area the size of the north east (re your previous statement)
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    Shannonmiles
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    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
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    Location: North Dartmouth MA USA

    PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    The Japanese are pretty savvy businessmen Laughing Laughing I'm sure if they felt it would be in their best interests they would. They are sponsoring John Part for example but I don't see the English jumping on the $10 flights anymore than the Yanks will. They sell very well however in their own market. I'm not going to spend $500 for a set of darts. Its a cultural thing. Different strokes. But to your original point I said it was over simplified I didn't say you were wrong. It IS easier for them to make money in Asia playing Soft tip than it is to make money playing steel in the UK. Period Full Stop.
    _________________
    We are the dance band on the Titanic............

    They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned

    Screws fall out all of the time, the world is an imperfect place. John Bender
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