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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - the ‘image’ of darts not being deemed ‘suitable’
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    the ‘image’ of darts not being deemed ‘suitable’

     
    Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dartplayer Dot Net Forum Index -> "Straight Shooting"
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    How can darts create a marketable image?
    Get more press for players with the "Good Guy image."
    14%
     14%  [ 3 ]
    Host more family oriented events, picnics, camping outings.
    4%
     4%  [ 1 ]
    More tournaments at "smoke free" venues.
    33%
     33%  [ 7 ]
    Less or no alcohol.
    19%
     19%  [ 4 ]
    More family oriented events.
    4%
     4%  [ 1 ]
    More charitable events.
    4%
     4%  [ 1 ]
    Other - please explain.
    19%
     19%  [ 4 ]
    Total Votes : 21

    Author Message
    Dart_talker
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: the ‘image’ of darts not being deemed ‘suitable’ Reply with quote

    I know that the subject of the image of the game of darts and dartsplayers has been a topic that may have been beat about a great deal, but the BDO has put it out that the games image is a key factor in securing sponsorships. Do we have an "image problem", and what can we do to change it?

    From "BDO Response to the Recent ‘Challenge’ From Martin Adams Group"
    Quote:

    The PDC is often cited as being a ‘brand leader’ in sponsorship and prize money. However, they change sponsors on a regular basis and can attract on-line gambling organisations because all their darts are live on Sky. Through Barry Hearn sponsorship comes from his involvement in other sports like snooker and pool or poker, as well as from his relationship with Sky advertising companies.

    The PDC prize money is funded further by the type of sky-high entry fees and PDPA membership (compulsory) that would not be tolerated by BDO players/officials.

    BDO sponsors past and present cannot be dismissed as ‘few and far between’: Embassy was a massive sponsor until government bans on tobacco sponsorship came into effect in 2003. Since then, Bob Potter and Lakeside have provided millions of pounds to keep the World Pro in its position as the premier event in World Darts. Without doubt this has kept the BBC very much on board and 2012 marks the 34th consecutive year of BDO darts on the BBC (something which Barry Hearn is extremely envious of). Pontin’s have been super supportive over many years and Winmau have supported the BDO for almost 40 years. John Smith’s have supported the World Masters and World Pro as well as introducing ‘People’s Darts’; the government ‘Fire Kills’ campaign sponsored the BDO International Grand Prix series; Jackpotjoy.com have been supporters of the World Masters and World Pro since 2006; East Riding of Yorkshire, Bridlington and Hull Councils have supported the World Pro and other events including the British Open and BDO British Internationals over a number of years. All are hugely reputable sponsors and supporters of BDO darts.

    Every possible sponsor has been approached, including water companies, insurance companies, breweries, credit card companies, etc, etc. The reasons for no uptake can include lack of available money for this type of activity, the ‘image’ of darts not being deemed ‘suitable’ for some products and services, and lack of commitment from
    counties, countries, players and officials.
    full post at:
    http://www.bdo-darts.co.uk/?p=585

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    Last edited by Dart_talker on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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    CannonFodder
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    There you go! Clear as day that the BDO has done everything right! Smile And nothing is wrong! so there...! Moving on.....
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    PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Other! Reply with quote

    Darts needs to have an image that appeals to both young men and women who want to go out with friends for a good time in hip cool lounge style bars. Not dark, dingy, old, dark taverns and pubs!

    I think we need to take a serious look at darts in Asia and the image the darts purveyors are promoting. The venues, competitions, and promotional materials all feature YOUNG attractive adults. Both men and women playing darts in lounges and clubs. Young urban professionals with disposable income. Most if not all the new darts venues in Asia are stylishly styled to attract both men and women. These venues are equally popular for women as well as men. Anybody remember the movie "Cocktail" with Tom Cruise? The cool young bartender in a cool hip bar. That's what I'm talking about!

    This image and its promotion is working in Asia. Can this be done in North America?

    I was in Seattle at the end of June and I did not see this kind of dart bar. I think that this is precisely why darts will see no growth in North America. Darts in North America is trapped in a style and image that cannot attract young adults or promoters to the sport.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Smoke-free and less alcohol or no alcohol are the leading options at this point, and that leads me to wonder if that's because that's what everyone thinks is the biggest problem with the image of darts in the public eye, or if the other options are just that far off the mark?
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I agree with Ducks, I believe it has nothing to due with smoking or drinking... It has to do with attracting the younger generation 20-30 groups.

    Look at the largest tournments (in terms of numbers) in the US... The Bullshooter are nothing but a party.. drinking from start to finish...
    They are growing in numbers.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    This is a business question. I will give a business answer.

    1. Develop a handicap system for league play. Yes, there will be low-life sand baggers, but it will promote growth of the sport.

    2. Practice where ever. Play for fun where ever. Do no hold sanctioned competition in bars.

    3. Stop fighting over nickels and dimes. Make tournament prizes trophies rather than money. If a few hot shots won't come unless they are paid, then they will not be missed. Use the money saved to promote youth, church, civic center programs, etc.

    4. More on request.

    If you think this answer stinks, take a whiff of the public's perception of the sport as it exist today in the USA.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    WC- I'm right there with you...although I can do without promoting church events Smile

    Standards of play across the country, including measurable stats.
    Get rid of money for all levels except the top.
    Promote Youth/School events to get the next generation in before the age of 21.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    fotoman wrote:
    WC- I'm right there with you...although I can do without promoting church events Smile

    Standards of play across the country, including measurable stats.
    Get rid of money for all levels except the top.
    Promote Youth/School events to get the next generation in before the age of 21.



    Im trying........
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Crash336 wrote:
    I agree with Ducks, I believe it has nothing to due with smoking or drinking... It has to do with attracting the younger generation 20-30 groups.

    Look at the largest tournments (in terms of numbers) in the US... The Bullshooter are nothing but a party.. drinking from start to finish...
    They are growing in numbers.


    Not that I think that smoking or drinking is important to the sport, but I don't think it's the real problem. Other sports/games such as bowling and pool have managed to attract fans, sponsors, prize money and TV coverage. I would suggest that a major part of the issue is lack of family involvement in darts, so more family friendly venues may be positive step in the right direction.
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    WC wrote:
    This is a business question. I will give a business answer.

    1. Develop a handicap system for league play. Yes, there will be low-life sand baggers, but it will promote growth of the sport.

    If there could be a nation wide handicap system (formula) available it would make it more appealing to any newbie who is considering playing the game.
    - A nationwide handicap system works for golf and APA pool http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html.

    WC wrote:

    2. Practice where ever. Play for fun where ever. Do no hold sanctioned competition in bars.

    This idea would make tournament play more available to youth. As it stands in my area there are few places other than one pool hall and one bowling alley where kids can play.

    WC wrote:

    3. Stop fighting over nickels and dimes. Make tournament prizes trophies rather than money. If a few hot shots won't come unless they are paid, then they will not be missed. Use the money saved to promote youth, church, civic center programs, etc.

    This is a discussion I will raise at our leagues next general meeting, along with the suggestion that we have more MLD local events for the players who want to take their game to the next level.

    WC wrote:

    4. More on request.

    If you think this answer stinks, take a whiff of the public's perception of the sport as it exist today in the USA.


    I would welcome any ideas you have on the matter... post them in this thread or send them to me via PM. I would love to work on projects that will grow the sport.

    PS. I'm not sure that darts really has a "really bad" image as much as a lack of an image. I say that because I talk to a lot of folks that are unfamiliar with the game, and they tell me that they just don't have a real understanding of how the game is played, what games they can play and that there are actually professional dart players in the USA (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).
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    PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I am "following this thread" but not receiving email notifications. Why not?

    I did vent a bit, but my intent was toward constructive critism.

    Darts has been extremely improtant to me and my professional growth. I am always available to discuss methods to introduce Darts to others in a pro active, positive light.
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    PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    WC wrote:
    I am "following this thread" but not receiving email notifications. Why not?

    That has happened to me from time to time after updates to my browser, and sometimes after updates to this site, but I'm unaware of any recent site updates... maybe post something about this problem in the site information section.

    WC wrote:

    I did vent a bit, but my intent was toward constructive critism.

    Darts has been extremely improtant to me and my professional growth. I am always available to discuss methods to introduce Darts to others in a pro active, positive light.


    No worries about the tone of any of your posts, as I found them to be well focused on solutions and finding ways to grow the game.
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    PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dart_talker wrote:
    WC wrote:
    This is a business question. I will give a business answer.

    1. Develop a handicap system for league play. Yes, there will be low-life sand baggers, but it will promote growth of the sport.

    If there could be a nation wide handicap system (formula) available it would make it more appealing to any newbie who is considering playing the game.
    - A nationwide handicap system works for golf and APA pool http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html.


    I'm working on it and it's almost done. It also goes along with a national standard for league play so players can be accurately tracked/ranted.

    Soft tip has figured this out (to a certain degree; but then they sort people into TOO small of categories and because of the minute changes and reporting, people get pigeonholed)
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    PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Rocky wrote:
    fotoman wrote:
    WC- I'm right there with you...although I can do without promoting church events Smile

    Standards of play across the country, including measurable stats.
    Get rid of money for all levels except the top.
    Promote Youth/School events to get the next generation in before the age of 21.



    Im trying........


    You're doing fine, and you don't count! Wink

    Canada has things together more than the US. It's just sad here.
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    fotoman wrote concerning a handicapping formula/system:

    Quote:
    I'm working on it and it's almost done


    I would be most interested in seeing an overview of your efforts.

    Rocky:

    If anyone around here counts concerning youth and the growth of Darts, it is you.

    YOU ARE THE MAN

    Thank you Very Happy
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Pink hat syndrome... Wink Pay everyone and give everyone trophys.. Wink
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Ok, so I've been working on an index system for darts, for a few months, on an effective way to categorize players into divisions. My version had 5 groupings, which were based on numerical analysis and observation.

    I examined the APA pool system and ran a quick formula to convert my index number into the 6 groupings that APA has (I kinda like the idea of the better player wins more legs/games thing; it's interesting). Anyway...my calculations match almost PERFECT with the formulaic version to put players into the 6 groups like pool. Basically, my 2nd group consists of their 2nd and 3rd groupings, which really puts pressure on the better player!!!

    I was kind of blown away as to how close things are. I think a no money tournament would be a great way to test this out.

    Obviously you would need to acquire an initial rating/index for players, but that can be easy to obtain. softtip already has these (I have a softtip to steel tip conversion table floating around here as well). For steel tip, we would just need for players to play 7 legs of 501, drop the best and worse legs and calculate the PPR. This then goes into my formulas and calculates the player rating/index which is then converted into one of the 6 APA (pool system) groups.

    Personally I think 6 groups is too many, although as I relook at things...the groups are pretty accurate. It's just the better "B" league players, lesser "A" league players start getting bunched into small groups...

    Players on the cusp between groups are always difficult, and when you add money into it...things get funky. I think for league or casual non-money tournaments with unified fields, it will work great. For money tournaments, only the top tier plays for money, the rest play for trophies and maybe a nominal prize fund (entry fee back type thing). This would encourage players to move up and join the big boys and play for money and would discourage sandbagging ,but still allow for players to compete against players of similar ability. And of course NOTHING is preventing players from playing in a group better than their official rating. Within the groups play is equal.
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Dart_talker wrote:
    WC wrote:
    This is a business question. I will give a business answer.

    1. Develop a handicap system for league play. Yes, there will be low-life sand baggers, but it will promote growth of the sport.

    If there could be a nation wide handicap system (formula) available it would make it more appealing to any newbie who is considering playing the game.
    - A nationwide handicap system works for golf and APA pool http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html.



    In reading this link it states that a player may not leave for a while or join another area in an attempt to start over with their ranking. How is that punished if it is discovered?
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    AmericanBadAss wrote:
    Dart_talker wrote:
    WC wrote:
    This is a business question. I will give a business answer.

    1. Develop a handicap system for league play. Yes, there will be low-life sand baggers, but it will promote growth of the sport.

    If there could be a nation wide handicap system (formula) available it would make it more appealing to any newbie who is considering playing the game.
    - A nationwide handicap system works for golf and APA pool http://www.poolplayers.com/equalizer.html.



    In reading this link it states that a player may not leave for a while or join another area in an attempt to start over with their ranking. How is that punished if it is discovered?


    Yea, I don't know about how the logistics of this works from an organization standpoint, but in a National system, it shouldn't matter where you live, your index is transportable, ala golf. I don't play pool and this is the first I've read about their system. And for an individual sport that plays legs/games like they do...it can easily be ported over to darts.

    I can see how if you don't participate in a while, it is difficult to judge your true caliber of play; I've seen this abused in golf tournaments I've played in where your index was based on past tournament performance, but then this one guy came back after 1 1/2 years and played with his old rating....needless to say he had improved greatly in that time and failed to inform the staff that he had indeed improved Sad They caved on Saturday and moved him on Sunday....I got screwed on Saturday.

    I also think that tournament performance should have a higher weight than league play as well.

    But as I see it, for league play and casual competitions and such the different divisions can together with the variable game win thing; but for big tournaments, I think the divisions/groups should be separate and only the top one play for money; the rest for trophies.
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    PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    AmericanBadAss wrote:

    In reading this link it states that a player may not leave for a while or join another area in an attempt to start over with their ranking. How is that punished if it is discovered?


    just went back and re-read this and it's not a bad thing. It says you can't move somewhere and claim to be a "new player" and get "re-rated" (i.e. start at the lower level). This is a good thing Smile

    They start people with a generic rating as opposed to try and access the rating/skill level before you start. Darts is a little different in that we CAN get a measurable rating on a person that is more accurate than a "new players start at X" thing.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I strongly suggest that, whatever handicapping system is attempted, keep it simple

    Consider using an infinite spreadsheed:

    Each player throws 21 legs of 501 and # of darts / leg is recorded, averaged, and that number is their "ranking"

    Each week, # of darts in each sanctioned leg won is added to the player's profile with an equal # of the earliest scores recorded dropped so the rating continues to reflect the last 21 leg average.

    If shooter "A" has a rating of of 19 darts/leg and shooter "B" has a rating of 24 darts/leg the shooter "B" would get to score 5 darts before the leg began.

    Just a thought.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    No handicapping -- it will ruin steel tips forever.

    Get rid of the social sins of darts (drinking, profanity, smoking) in public -- at least during matches and in the match arena -- the PDC seems to do this well on stage.

    I think that in order to change the image you have to change the image.

    When I go to Canada the players are smartly dressed and cannot compete (at least in the KO rounds) unless they have appropriate attire.

    When I go to US events the players may be wearing flip flops and wife beaters....you do the math.
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Erik wrote:
    No handicapping -- it will ruin steel tips forever.

    Get rid of the social sins of darts (drinking, profanity, smoking) in public -- at least during matches and in the match arena -- the PDC seems to do this well on stage.

    I think that in order to change the image you have to change the image.

    When I go to Canada the players are smartly dressed and cannot compete (at least in the KO rounds) unless they have appropriate attire.

    When I go to US events the players may be wearing flip flops and wife beaters....you do the math.



    I think darts needs pro, amateur and casual players much like golf, pool and bowling, each of these sports/games offers handicaps to all but the pro players, and have dress codes and rules that become more stringent as you reach the higher levels.

    I don't think darts suffers as much from a "unsuitable image", but more of a poorly developed image (granted that excessive drinking needs to be addressed). I really believe that almost everyone, in the USA, involved in darts (outside of the "Darts & Supplies for the Troops Campaign") has just let the image of darts develop on it's own with no thought to building an appealing public image that will entice people who are looking to take on a new sport, hobby, activity or pastime.

    Much of the time dartplayers and dart leagues are only interested what is of interest to our fellow players, and the bars that support the game. We tend to give little thought to finding ways to engage the general public in the game on any level. For the most part the public view of darts is: "Something to do in a bar if you are bored", or just meaninglessly throwing sharp objects at a board. I know that some folks have dartboards up in their garages/game-rooms, but for the most part these boards are little more than decorations that get little use.

    There has to be a way for us to get new folks interested in playing the game of darts. We need some innovative thinking to create the idea that this game is a fun family activity that can be rewarding for anyone who chooses to participate at any level of the game... be it just casual involvement to the pro level of play.
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    KeyserSoze
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    Joined: Feb 09, 2008
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    PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Erik wrote:
    No handicapping -- it will ruin steel tips forever.

    Get rid of the social sins of darts (drinking, profanity, smoking) in public -- at least during matches and in the match arena -- the PDC seems to do this well on stage.

    I think that in order to change the image you have to change the image.

    When I go to Canada the players are smartly dressed and cannot compete (at least in the KO rounds) unless they have appropriate attire.

    When I go to US events the players may be wearing flip flops and wife beaters....you do the math.


    In NDFC ranked tournaments, our dress code is as follows:

    PLAYING ATTIRE and HEADGEAR
    19.1
    Players must wear dress pants or skirts and a collared shirt while playing on stage in staged event.
    19.2
    Headgear and electronic listening devices shall not be worn without prior permission of the Organizers. Such permission must be given to players whose religious or moral duties require that the head be covered or to players with a medical condition verified by physician (e.g. hearing impairment, Alopecia Areata, chemotherapy or radiation treatment)

    There are other rules regarding smoking (although most venues in Canada are non-smoking by law), code of conduct and alcohol consumption spelled out in the NDFC rules. The NDFC's site is public domain, www.ndfc.ca look for the rules tab if you would like further information.

    *edit..removed comma from link..AmericanBadAss*
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    WC
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    Joined: Mar 07, 2007
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    PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Erik wrote:
    Quote:
    "No handicapping -- it will ruin steel tips forever."

    Please explain. It has certainly helped make golf what it is today.

    "If you keep doing the same old thing you will get the same old results."

    Ideas without Action is the definition of Useless, Idle Thought.
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