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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Darts is dying in Columbus!!??
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    Darts is dying in Columbus!!??
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    dsm1mtm
    Dart Gunny
    Dart Gunny


    Joined: Mar 28, 2007
    Posts: 915

    PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    Nice post Gordon. I do think the $1000 bucks a leg was not meant literally but more as a silly dig at me for what the poster obviously perceives as my arrogance. To him I will say I put my money where my mouth is in regards to darts more than most. I spend thousands upon thousands every year playing this game with my family in events all over this country. I have NO idea who you are. Perhaps one day if you make it to a tournament you should introduce yourself.


    Not exactly how this fits into our disagreement, but anyhow. Why would you like to meet me? I have been to some tournaments but decided to quit going to larger tournies. But that is a whole different story. And no it had absolutely nothing to do with the level of play there either.
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    djsayre
    Dart Corporal
    Dart Corporal


    Joined: Jul 20, 2008
    Posts: 144

    PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Normally this is where I crack a joke and then say something I think is meaningful...seeing as I cant think of anything funny to say I will just begin.

    I absolutely agree with handicapping. Does it benefit me in anyway? Absolutely not, but I know that had it not been for handicapped leagues my parents would not have taken up soft tip darts when they did. Then I would never have started playing. IMO handicapping is a great way to get more people involved in darts. The hardest part of anything is getting people in the door. Once you have people interested, THEY will decide if they are going to be mediocre or absolutely try to be the best that they can be. It is "our" (meaning the well experienced and good darters) job to offer the better players a bigger venue. Again giving them something to work for. No matter what it is all going to come down to personal will.

    I completely understand where you are coming from in your experience in WA. It is somewhat sad that people would rather watch you play by yourself than to get beat by you. The fact of the matter is, most likely these are players that are content with being mediocre. One example I will use is about a year ago in one of my steel tip leagues. This league had two divisions, A and B. Well neither team had a full 6 teams. (I believe there were 4 teams in each) So the league decided to have all A teams play all B teams once and then play every team in your own division twice. Well the first time my team walked in to play a B team, the first thing out of any of their mouths was, "we will be your sacrificial lambs tonight." They proceeded to complain and wimper about how they had to play an A team the rest of the night. Im not talking about one player, but an entire team of 5 people. So the point im trying to make is that it is not the fault of soft tip or handicapping that people dont have any desire to be better than they are. It is personal will.

    The moral of my whole post is handicapping of any sort doesnt level the playing field by anymeans, but it is still good. It actually hurts better players, but the better players have to realize that a local parity draw is not the venue for the best players. I kinda look at handicapped leagues as a minor league system to ado tournaments or larger tournaments of that sort. I also look at the ado system as a minor league system to WDF and PDC tournaments. They all have a level and its once someone reaches the top of that level, that they should pursue something more.
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    Dart_talker
    Senior Moderator
    Senior Moderator


    Joined: Sep 05, 2005
    Posts: 4968
    Location: Southern California

    PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    djsayre wrote:

    The moral of my whole post is handicapping of any sort doesnt level the playing field by anymeans, but it is still good. It actually hurts better players, but the better players have to realize that a local parity draw is not the venue for the best players. I kinda look at handicapped leagues as a minor league system to ado tournaments or larger tournaments of that sort. I also look at the ado system as a minor league system to WDF and PDC tournaments. They all have a level and its once someone reaches the top of that level, that they should pursue something more.


    Good post and good point about bringing families into the sport. Our league now has 3 teams that are built around families, and 2 teams that are built around folks that work at the same company.

    Get them into the sport by any means and let them seek their own level from there, because like so much of life it's a numbers game...
    the more new players we bring into the sport the greater the potential of finding that next truly talented player, and it may be the new player that brings in the next great talent.
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    Shannonmiles
    Go Navy Darter
    Go Navy Darter


    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 2348
    Location: North Dartmouth MA USA

    PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    xx
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    OhioSt8
    Dart Sergeant
    Dart Sergeant


    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 255
    Location: Dayton, Ohio

    PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    When the Witch City Open or any number of now defunct of National tournaments drew hundreds and hundreds of players were the "social" players not playing? When a LOD in a small CT bar on the day after Christmas drew almost eighty players in 1992 were these all "pros"? Not! I think this whole "social" player argument is non sense. I think a combination of the economy....the stiffening of drinking and driving laws and the fact that overall we have become a society of thin skinned whiny babies that need to be spoon fed their successes. A society that FEARS failure. So instead of showing up and TRYING to bring ourselves up to the high bar set by the best our game has to offer...... we try to justify attempting to "level the playing field" to placate this lowest common denominator as a way to "grow the game". Sickening. Really and truly sickening.


    Not sure I agree 100%, but it's gotta be in the high 99's!! Wow! Great post, Shannon. I'm so sick of the mentality these days.
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    OhioSt8
    Dart Sergeant
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    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 255
    Location: Dayton, Ohio

    PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Shannonmiles wrote:
    GeorgeSilberzah wrote:
    Here's the sad fact: among all the things already mentioned here; those involved in darts are the people who have been at the game for a long time. There are very few younger people getting into the game/sport.


    In my mind we have come full circle to the points I tried to make a couple of years ago here on SEWA which made me a pariah in the minds of many. The ….everyone gets a trophy…..there are no losers….everyone gets to feel great about themselves mentality is on full display. This abomination against the real world is why soft tip grows and steel in many areas is dying. The younger generation DEMANDS they “be given a chance to compete on equal terms” if not afforded this benefit they simply will refuse to take part. It is an entitlement mentality that permeates our entire culture. People defend it as a way to “grow the game” to get “better participation”. However, it is really merely a symptom of what it wrong with our world exposed in the microcosm of darts. The “Greatest Generation” is gone. Their work ethic is gone. Their desire to be the best is gone. People would much rather take a hand out than work for anything. You can extend this from a simple game of darts to the welfare system that is ruining this country. We have managed to breed out a good chunk of the fight that was once in us. All that is left is………soft tip……and the entitlement mentality.


    This reminds me of why there are no longer sponsored players in America (for the most part), like there used to be. It's because, due to this "everyone wins", "let's make everyone equal", etc., there are no real "Celebrity" players. There used to be Tony Payne, Umberger, Lim, Ney, Larry, and they were the absolute top, and the rest were far from them. Nowadays, there is no clear #1 in America, just a ton of pretty good throwers, that can all win a tourney on any given day. Our new way of thinking has accomplished one thing... parity. Great. Sponsors want to endorse only the best, not just another person in a crowd of persons.
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    barjo
    First Sergeant
    First Sergeant


    Joined: Apr 23, 2007
    Posts: 1200

    PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    OhioSt8 wrote:
    This reminds me of why there are no longer sponsored players in America (for the most part), like there used to be. It's because, due to this "everyone wins", "let's make everyone equal", etc., there are no real "Celebrity" players. There used to be Tony Payne, Umberger, Lim, Ney, Larry, and they were the absolute top, and the rest were far from them. Nowadays, there is no clear #1 in America, just a ton of pretty good throwers, that can all win a tourney on any given day. Our new way of thinking has accomplished one thing... parity. Great. Sponsors want to endorse only the best, not just another person in a crowd of persons.
    I disagree wholeheartedly. If there is parity - and that's a big "if" - it has nothing to do with the alleged "everybody wins mentality" (which I don't believe exists, but is really just whining by people who can't see the forest for the trees). Steel-tip darts is simply not as popular as it was 20 years ago, and for many reasons.

    If there are fewer sponsored players the reason is simple - fewer potential sponsors feel it is a wise investment. In other words, it ain't worth it. Without ROI, and in a sport that has declined in popularity (and/or changed towards soft-tip), sponsorships will be harder to find. It's all about the money regardless of the sport. Always has been, always will be.
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    Dart_talker
    Senior Moderator
    Senior Moderator


    Joined: Sep 05, 2005
    Posts: 4968
    Location: Southern California

    PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    barjo wrote:
    OhioSt8 wrote:
    This reminds me of why there are no longer sponsored players in America (for the most part), like there used to be. It's because, due to this "everyone wins", "let's make everyone equal", etc., there are no real "Celebrity" players. There used to be Tony Payne, Umberger, Lim, Ney, Larry, and they were the absolute top, and the rest were far from them. Nowadays, there is no clear #1 in America, just a ton of pretty good throwers, that can all win a tourney on any given day. Our new way of thinking has accomplished one thing... parity. Great. Sponsors want to endorse only the best, not just another person in a crowd of persons.
    I disagree wholeheartedly. If there is parity - and that's a big "if" - it has nothing to do with the alleged "everybody wins mentality" (which I don't believe exists, but is really just whining by people who can't see the forest for the trees). Steel-tip darts is simply not as popular as it was 20 years ago, and for many reasons.

    If there are fewer sponsored players the reason is simple - fewer potential sponsors feel it is a wise investment. In other words, it ain't worth it. Without ROI, and in a sport that has declined in popularity (and/or changed towards soft-tip), sponsorships will be harder to find. It's all about the money regardless of the sport. Always has been, always will be.


    ROI is truly the key issue to sponsorship for players and events! Sponsors will only spend money on things that appeal to their target market, and unless darts has a broad base of players and fans that sponsor money won't materialize.

    Your average person who walks into a dart tournament won't stick around and watch, because they don't understand the event and games that are being played. We as dart players need to talk to the casual observer, and explain whats going on, how the game is played and, if they are interested, explain where and how they can participate or learn more about the game.

    The bottom line is... If you are not actively doing something help bring new folks to game, you are just standing by watching it die.
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    Robot
    ADO TOP 10
    ADO TOP 10


    Joined: Aug 01, 2008
    Posts: 675
    Location: Cary, NC

    PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Gordon_Dixon wrote:
    If I move anywhere for darts it won't be in this country Smile


    Let's go! haha

    I grew up in a city that had a handicapped steel tip dart league. Both my parents played and I wanted to compete. I started almost 15 years ago, and I still enjoy playing in the league. There have been a couple people accused of sandbagging over the years, but very minimal.
    Everyone looks at the rankings, and it's my pride that keeps me striving to get it as high as possible. It's not in me to miss on purpose, to make winning easier later. I'd rather lose trying my best. I have to play my game to keep winning. I don't get any games off.
    I do enjoy playing tournaments the most though. The longer the format, the better.
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