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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Should S.A teams break up to mentor the A division players?
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    Should S.A teams break up to mentor the A division players?
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    Should S.A. teams break up to mentor the A division players?
    Yes
    21%
     21%  [ 8 ]
    No
    71%
     71%  [ 27 ]
    Undecided
    7%
     7%  [ 3 ]
    Total Votes : 38

    Author Message
    jakesy
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Not speaking for Skiz either but wasn't the statement made several times here that the BOD should not on it's own dictate roster size, format or policy for S.A.
    Have a S.A. meeting and vote on a few proposals get the direction the majority of S.A. wants to go. you can do this without forming fictitious teams etc... Seems like the logical start point. But it should be done soon so the kinks can get worked out over the summer.
    I think the fact that this goes round and round is that S.A. talks a lot on here but for all intents and purposes isn't very pro active in determining it's own destiny. JMO
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    DEREK
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy...when we have done that in the past..as far as a meeting for SA players...we ended up with about 4 super A players and 15 A players that were all saying how they wouldn't want to play in sa or the format was too long...it is very hard to get people to a meeting. With personal lives and work and kids and such it is just not real easy to do...that is why we had a super A comittee with reps from each area on it...that is how we got the format changes we wanted...so if anything we need to do that again...but we need the support to follow through from the BOD with whatever format/roster the comittee votes on...and if people don't show up for the meetings then it is their own fault...so when the league changes the way SA is in the fall, they would have to live with it.
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    pineapplebimbo
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    PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    no way! i don't want to be mentored by anyone, leave the sa players to do what they do best - perform - you can learn just as much by watching and paying attention, tuesday night is not the only time these sa players play, go to a tournament or a lod and play them or with them(if your lucky enough) and you will learn plenty. don't be shy, you can even ask them questions, believe me they do not bite Laughing
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    Triple-B
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I dont know what happend but but before there was internet the price of wining an A state championship or your area gave you a spot in Super A.Yes some diddnt like this but this was the RULE.Like I have said before do you see Baltimore saying we cant beat the Yankees or the Red Sox so can you send us down to AAA. Rolling Eyes
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    pmack81
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    tripleb wrote:
    I dont know what happend but but before there was internet the price of wining an A state championship or your area gave you a spot in Super A.Yes some diddnt like this but this was the RULE.Like I have said before do you see Baltimore saying we cant beat the Yankees or the Red Sox so can you send us down to AAA. Rolling Eyes

    Or BBB even (in my best Snaggle Puss voice) Sorry Bill, I had too. It was just too easy Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Chitown599
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    tripleb wrote:
    I dont know what happend but but before there was internet the price of wining an A state championship or your area gave you a spot in Super A.Yes some diddnt like this but this was the RULE.Like I have said before do you see Baltimore saying we cant beat the Yankees or the Red Sox so can you send us down to AAA. Rolling Eyes



    Billy, if possible, we are trying to keep from forcing teams up, into S.A.

    I know I will probably be accused of whining, but so be it, here it is.

    Forcing teams to play in S.A. creates 2 things. (1) teams complaining all season, due to not being able to compete, and (2) by forcing teams to play in S.A. that don't belong there, just weakens the division.

    Now, as I see it, there are said to be 2 ways to keep the above 2 things from happening. (1) we can go to smaller rosters, hoping it will create more teams, or (2) we split up the top teams, and take on A division players to mentor, to fill out the roster.

    Well I like option 3. We let all the teams form anyway they want. If the stacked teams want to stay together, that's fine. If some of the top teams want to split up and mentor A division players, that's fine too.
    I see nothing good out of forcing teams to split up. People want to play with teammates they feel comfortable with, bottom line.
    Those A division players who truly want to play in S.A. need to band together, like it was suggested and take the challenge S.A. poses. Those who think they are good enough, come to the LOD's or tournaments and showcase your talents. If you are indeed good enough, you will be asked to play. Those who aren't good enough, do the same thing, and with time and practice, hopefully you soon will be good enough.
    The main thing to remember is, you need to put in the time, like we all did.
    We didn't ask teams to break up, in order to expedite our rise to the top division. No, we got our butts beat by constantly playing people better than us, until one day, we found that we were winning more than losing. You want to do it right, that's the right way to do it. OK, I am done whining, as opinions here are called. So you can agree, or disagree, that is your choice, or "opinion".
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    ELECTROMAN
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    PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I couldn't agree with you more Frank.

    Let the shooters that want to play together stay together.
    You cant expect a team that is not happy to shoot well.

    The only reason i like the force up rule is that it keeps teams that become good from dominating thier division.

    My team went to the A division state finals in 2002 and lost 12 to 0 to a super A team from central that wouldnt move up because they didn't want to travel to boston.And threatened to quit if forced.
    Unfortunately for us the BOD at the time allowed them to stay in A division.
    This really sucked for us.
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    VMoe
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    PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Same thing happened to us back in 98'. 12-2. They stayed in A and we went up. Go figure.
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    jakesy
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    PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Being one who is very much into semantics and the human condition, I particularly enjoy observing people's tactics lent towards the art of manipulation which some do consciously and others unconsciously.

    I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival, to asking S.A. teams to "breakup" to form some sort of mentoring system.
    This was a very good example of the above that i enjoyed very much Laughing
    Thank You
    Your validation is apparent when you get responses like.... "no way, i don't want to be mentored by anybody". Mission accomplished. Wink
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    kirby
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    PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy wrote:
    Being one who is very much into semantics and the human condition, I particularly enjoy observing people's tactics lent towards the art of manipulation which some do consciously and others unconsciously.

    I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival, to asking S.A. teams to "breakup" to form some sort of mentoring system.
    This was a very good example of the above that i enjoyed very much Laughing
    Thank You
    Your validation is apparent when you get responses like.... "no way, i don't want to be mentored by anybody". Mission accomplished. Wink


    I've been "mentoring" youngins for years and when they get sick of me and finally learn "themselves" what to do and how to do it they tell me to screw and to get lost.. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Mission accomplished.. Wink Wink Wink
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    Iceberg
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    PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy wrote:
    Being one who is very much into semantics and the human condition, I particularly enjoy observing people's tactics lent towards the art of manipulation which some do consciously and others unconsciously.

    I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival, to asking S.A. teams to "breakup" to form some sort of mentoring system.
    This was a very good example of the above that i enjoyed very much Laughing
    Thank You
    Your validation is apparent when you get responses like.... "no way, i don't want to be mentored by anybody". Mission accomplished. Wink


    Jakesy, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black. When you make a statement like;

    "I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival"

    ...are'nt you doing the same thing. Your implication is that your ideas of the state of SA darts and what should be done are gospel. Those are just your opinions. I personally don't believe you are right. Especially the overstatement that your ideas would "ensure it's [SA] survival". Are'nt you engaging in the same manipulation and self-serving attempts at persuasion you condemn others for. Most SA players don't think teams should be forced into parity. It is just another opinion, but it is widely held. You can repeatedly berate us for this opinion if you want... but it is our opinion.

    I enjoy discussions, but this constant baiting, hyperbole and fishing for reactions is getting tiring.

    Just sayin' Smile Smile
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    jakesy
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    PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Iceberg wrote:
    jakesy wrote:
    Being one who is very much into semantics and the human condition, I particularly enjoy observing people's tactics lent towards the art of manipulation which some do consciously and others unconsciously.

    I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival, to asking S.A. teams to "breakup" to form some sort of mentoring system.
    This was a very good example of the above that i enjoyed very much Laughing
    Thank You
    Your validation is apparent when you get responses like.... "no way, i don't want to be mentored by anybody". Mission accomplished. Wink


    Jakesy, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black. When you make a statement like;

    "I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival"

    ...are'nt you doing the same thing. Your implication is that your ideas of the state of SA darts and what should be done are gospel. Those are just your opinions. I personally don't believe you are right. Especially the overstatement that your ideas would "ensure it's [SA] survival". Are'nt you engaging in the same manipulation and self-serving attempts at persuasion you condemn others for. Most SA players don't think teams should be forced into parity. It is just another opinion, but it is widely held. You can repeatedly berate us for this opinion if you want... but it is our opinion.

    I enjoy discussions, but this constant baiting, hyperbole and fishing for reactions is getting tiring.

    Just sayin' Smile Smile


    Jeff I wasn't going to answer this but let's set the record straight. I don't think my word is gospel, I have an idea. an idea that has garnished some interest. I've never called for a forced breakup of any teams or divisions.
    the idea looks for volunteers from both A ans Super A. I would like you to show me any post I've made calling for a mandatory breakup, it's not there. I've met you Jeff your very personable and a shooter that i admire. If you hadn't made an impact on me, I wouldn't care what you say about me, but you did, so I do. I don't see how you'd view me as manipulative or trying to force my will on anyone. All it is, is an idea. If I could force this league and it's membership to bend to my will.......
    Be I would a Jedi.... May the force be with you Jeff Wink
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    Iceberg
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    PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    jakesy wrote:
    I find it interesting that this subject matter morphed from "splitting" rosters and adding A shooters to level the competition somewhat and making the 14 weeks prior to the playoffs meaningful, expanding the division and thereby ensuring it's survival, to asking S.A. teams to "breakup" to form some sort of mentoring system.


    Jakesy, this is the quote I was referring to.

    IMHO it is best for us to move on. You (and others) support teams rearranging to spead out the talent... fair enough. I (and others) support 4-man format/6-man teams with traditional stacking... fair enough.

    Super A, or A, or whatever you call it will survive as it has since the creation of MMDL. From reading the posts of the few truly influential posters here, I can see that there will be some change, but it will be minor. I don't have a problem with that. You have a good thing going in the MMDL. It is the members of the MMDL that make it what it is. That will not change. Just look at the excitement building in SA as we move towards the finals. Look at the qualifier we just had. Look at the regional that took place this Saturday. Look at the wealth of local tournaments. Things are fine in MMD and with darts in this region. You have an active and vibrant dart community here.

    I don't want to be a part of causing this debate to become personal. To me this is a discussion on what could make SA darts more fun... that's all. For my part, I will try to stick to the dart-issues and resist posting anything that is personal.

    Jeff
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