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    Dartplayer Dot Net :: View topic - Post Pacmania II Questions
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    Post Pacmania II Questions
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    Why didn't you go to the Pacmania II $100,000.00 Steel Tip Tournament
    The entry fee's were to high.
    2%
     2%  [ 1 ]
    The hotel rooms were to expensive
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    The top players in the country will be there, there is no way I can compete with them.
    2%
     2%  [ 1 ]
    I Had family commitments
    8%
     8%  [ 4 ]
    I didn't like the format
    0%
     0%  [ 0 ]
    I get to nervous at big tournaments. I was afraid I would shoot poorly
    2%
     2%  [ 1 ]
    Most of the draw events were on Thursday and I could not get out of work
    4%
     4%  [ 2 ]
    I just couldn't afford it right now
    77%
     77%  [ 35 ]
    Act of God kept me away
    2%
     2%  [ 1 ]
    Total Votes : 45

    Author Message
    LEGIONOFDOOM
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    PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    3) Day one, a player who didn't know some of the most basic 2-dart outs took home $1450!


    <---a victim of that nonsense Laughing

    entry fees weren't a factor in my decision to go. i had a better chance at winning money at this tourny than buying a scratch ticket.

    and ill go to the next one too regardless.
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    jessejames423
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    PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Quote:
    i had a better chance at winning money at this tourny than buying a scratch ticket.


    Excellent point Avery...timing and $$$ were a big factor for me, but as pointed out by Chunky the payout to entry ratio was huge!
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    OC
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    PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    As everyone has said I'm sure there were a lot of different reasons for the turnout.
    Just one idea, in response to SK's comment " how on earth to take a lump of cash so huge and make an event that everyone will be happy with. "
    Lets face it, attracting more players may result in some of them winning, but given the talent present, many of them might just be cannon fodder (sorry CannonFodder). But if you have 100k to spread around, why not take $1000, put it in a raffle, give everyone a who enters an event a free ticket (and maybe the only way to get a ticket is enter?), and then have drawings throughout the event for prizes (cash, merchandise, boards, etc.). Maybe one "big" prize like a flatscreen tv. Something that everyone has a shot at even if they go out first round every time. Maybe schedule the times for each drawing and make it "must be present to win" to get folks to hang around (or come back). I've often thought something like that would be a good way to get at least more local players out to a tourney and keep them there for awhile.
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    Shannonmiles
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    PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    OC wrote:
    As everyone has said I'm sure there were a lot of different reasons for the turnout.
    Just one idea, in response to SK's comment " how on earth to take a lump of cash so huge and make an event that everyone will be happy with. "
    Lets face it, attracting more players may result in some of them winning, but given the talent present, many of them might just be cannon fodder (sorry CannonFodder). But if you have 100k to spread around, why not take $1000, put it in a raffle, give everyone a who enters an event a free ticket (and maybe the only way to get a ticket is enter?), and then have drawings throughout the event for prizes (cash, merchandise, boards, etc.). Maybe one "big" prize like a flatscreen tv. Something that everyone has a shot at even if they go out first round every time. Maybe schedule the times for each drawing and make it "must be present to win" to get folks to hang around (or come back). I've often thought something like that would be a good way to get at least more local players out to a tourney and keep them there for awhile.
    This is one of the most interesting ideas I've heard in a while. Very cool idea. Obviously we can't get people to come out only for the darts but this is some great out of the box thinking.
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    string
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    PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I had the money, the time off, my wife's blessing and a car with a full tank of gas, but I didn't have the game.

    I've been battling a lot of physical/technical problems with darts lately, and while dartitus was frustrating, not being able to hold a dart without dropping it at the most inopportune times seems equally so. It seemed unfair to submit anyone even in a blind draw to inheriting me as a partner. So I chose to pass on this one.

    Congrats to LegionOfDoom though, who showed the same quality that we had all come to appreciate in the old online tournaments here that Blackhorse used to run. And to SleepyKramer, Linda Hinds, my friend Chili Peppers and all the rest of the California crowd.
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    SOUPR
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    PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I think it was great that a softtip player was able to get over $1500 in the LOD events. Everyone is bashing this guy because he did not know his outs,but still managed to shoot well enogh to win all that money.

    It seems to me a lot of people are showing a jealous side over this lucky as well as good shooter.

    No matter who he is, he had to be a very good shot to place that well with the different partners. They were good draws but still you have to shoot some damn good darts to do that well in a field of this class.

    My hat is off to him for doing so well
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    string
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    PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Amen to that Soupr. Knowing all the outs doesn't do much good if you can't hit 'em. By the same token, if you can hit everything that you throw at, the out shot combinations become almost a moot point.
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    CannonFodder
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    PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I have not been traveling much outside of South Dakota to play. Family with kids and wife (non-darts partner). Lone exceptions were the LVDC 2 years ago in which I got nailed by Kevin Painter, Kevin McDine and Alan Tabern in the first rounds on the 3 days Laughing Talk about needing to improve! phew! Had nightmares for months!!! he, he! Just kidding, but definitely struggled with it and need vast improvement!

    I also get to go to the Chase tournament in North Dakota. However, I am planning to go to the Minnesota tournament next year and possibly one of the majors, but surely not the biggest majors. Some tournament that draws some of the best, but not all of them Smile Don't know which one. PacMania sure sounds like it could be a good one. I am are on track to be credit-card free by Jan-Feb. next year. So that will be huge. However, all those plans might be derailed since we might have to take a vacation to see my family in Norway and I've only got 2 weeks of vacation time in a year. In Norway, all my friends got 5 weeks to burn. It's very hard to take the time and money to travel for the sport I love considering everything. I practice because I love Darts and not for the money. I will probably change my stance on it when/if I get back to the form that can take me to positions of consistently reach at least one top 4 place in one of the singles events in most of the "local" tournaments.

    Until then, I'll stick with my brutally honest nickname! Laughing
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    SOUPR
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    PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    What you stated right here is a major difference in our life style to the Euro's.

    Here in the states most everybody has 2 weeks of vacation per year, but in Europe they get over 4 weeks for most everyone.

    Man we chase the almighty dollar so hard here.

    Or the MAN controls US.............
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    fotoman
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: pacman II Reply with quote

    PHILLYKID180 wrote:
    why dont we if manny has another tourney and give us enough time to plan, have a consolation tourney for the players that dont make the money rounds but have the consolation a bigger payout then usual. instead of 5000 to the winner of the 501 (wow thats a lot) have it 3000 thats still will draw the best and a few other events take off a few hundred. then you can make the consolation a few grand. will that work????


    I've been an advocate of a consolation/1st flight bracket for a while. I've mentioned it on here several times. Coming from other sports and having shot just a few other sports as well (gotta love the moniker), I found it very strange that I was only guaranteed 1 match in each event I entered.

    The multitude of team sports I have photographed over the years, how many of those teams would enter these tournaments if they were guaranteed 1 game? ZERO, then you would have no tournaments, and all the kids would be sad Sad

    I don't know if 1st place of the consolation/1st flight has to be $3000, but at least have it so people can play darts. In Pacmania III, if the purse stays the same, a $500 first place for the consolation bracket in 501 singles would be fine in my opinion.

    Dart tournaments need to realize that for their tournaments to grow, they need to start catering to the average dart player. Right now there is ZERO incentive for them to enter a tournament. I mean, I'm one of the better players in my league, I'm a decent shot, so I'm going to enter, but the other 94% of my league has no incentive to play in tournaments. Get 10% of those guys playing and all of a sudden, your $10k events turn into $15k events.

    Saving pennies now for Pacmania III Smile
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    chunky
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: pacman II Reply with quote

    fotoman wrote:
    In Pacmania III, if the purse stays the same, a $500 first place for the consolation bracket in 501 singles would be fine in my opinion.


    Absolutely not; although I like the idea of a consolation event, first place money should NEVER exceed the payout in the first money round. How would you feel if you beat a player first round, who then walked off with more money than you did? This situation can also lead to sandbagging.

    Logistics dictate that a consolation event would be far easier to implement at a larger (higher-paying) tournament, as it would be easier to give some worthwhile money for the consolation. For example, the 501 singles at Pacmania paid $250 to T16.

    What I would consider "fine" would be:
    1st - $240
    2nd - $150
    T4 - $90
    T8 - $50

    That is still a considerable purse of $770, but the important thing is that it gives players more chances to play, and eight more players are making money over their original entry fee.

    Again, I see nothing wrong in making the early rounds of such an event a modified round-robin.

    Steve
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    fotoman
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Steve- That's fine as well. I guess I would personally rather play for a larger purse than worry about money.

    Actually, you could get rid of the $$$ prize for the consolation bracket altogether as far as I'm concerned. Have a trophy/plaque, or one of those handy medals they were giving out. I think people just want to play darts.

    The only reason I mentioned the $500 for 1st in the consolation bracket is because that's not a bad payout for winning the losers bracket.

    Bob Martell runs a few 1 day events where we play an assload of round robin games and the top 8 make it to the main money rounds and the rest go into a consolation bracket. 1st place in the consolation is more than top 8 in the winners bracket. I could see a few people being wonky and wanting to just attempt to win more in the losers bracket, but I'd rather have a go at the larger purse. Just needed to win 1 more leg and I would have been there.... Evil or Very Mad

    I would love to see tournaments bring in a consolation/1st flight bracket for everyone who loses the BYE round and the 1st round. You would also extend this to any place that doesn't cash, either way would work for me. There shouldn't be an issue with boards to play on as each round progresses the number of available boards increases exponentially. The BYE/1st rounds were staggered at Pacmania II, to allow for chalkers, but after those are done, the consolation bracket could get going and shouldn't delay the event any more. Plus, a good majority of players would be ecstatic to find out they still get to play Cool

    We just had a qualifier last wed for our league and a few guys apparently weren't listening when I said double elimination and did get excited to find out they were still in it. Just making the masses happy with more darts Smile
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    chunky
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    fotoman wrote:
    Steve- That's fine as well. I guess I would personally rather play for a larger purse than worry about money.


    There are those who DON'T feel like that...

    Quote:
    Actually, you could get rid of the $$$ prize for the consolation bracket altogether as far as I'm concerned. Have a trophy/plaque, or one of those handy medals they were giving out. I think people just want to play darts.


    Quite true (which is why I suggested a MRR), but when you have a tournament where the first money round is $250, and it costs just $40 to enter, that does give you a little more scope. Of course, to offset some of that funding, everyone in the consolation round could pay a minimal - say $5-10 - entry fee.

    Quote:
    The only reason I mentioned the $500 for 1st in the consolation bracket is because that's not a bad payout for winning the losers bracket.


    Of course it's not, but as long as you can see my logic...

    Quote:
    Bob Martell runs a few 1 day events where we play an assload of round robin games and the top 8 make it to the main money rounds and the rest go into a consolation bracket. 1st place in the consolation is more than top 8 in the winners bracket. I could see a few people being wonky and wanting to just attempt to win more in the losers bracket


    Right, but why should someone get more for failing than the person who beat them? Surely that is wrong?

    Quote:
    I would love to see tournaments bring in a consolation/1st flight bracket for everyone who loses the BYE round and the 1st round. You would also extend this to any place that doesn't cash, either way would work for me.


    You would really have to include all those who don't cash. It would be very frustrating to be caught somewhere in the middle of the main event and the consolation event, when everyone else, including the player you beat first round, and the player who beat you second round, is playing for money while you're sitting down!

    Steve

    PS fotoman - why didn't you introduce yourself?
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    string
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Chunky, I believe that Bob Martell has the formula right or very near right with his consolation tournaments. The logical thing is to have the winner of the consolation tournament payout be slightly higher than the payouts for the first tier money rounds but less than the 2nd tier payouts.

    So the scenario for Pachmania would be something like $300 or $350 for winning the consolation, say about $200 for 2nd and around $125 for 3rd and 4th. The idea being that yes, you can win slightly more for winning the consolation tournament than simply making the money rounds, but you have to beat everyone in the consolation tournament to get that. It isn't worth sandbagging, yet it still makes winning it all a rewarded enterprise.

    Let's face it - often getting into the money round is simply luck-of-the-draw anyway. Any weak player entering the tournament simply intent on the money hopes for a first round bye followed by drawing another weak player in the 2nd round that also had a bye. Now you are in the money and didn't have to play anyone. Why should that person win more money than the person that wins the entire consolation tournament against often some very tough competition? So you see, it becomes a wash. And now with more intermediate players joining the main tournament, there is a greater chance of actually drawing someone they can actually beat in the early rounds.

    And as you know, even the second best talent in the tournament can get knocked out in the first round by a bad draw. A consolation tournament should be viewed as insurance against an unlucky draw in a tournament that only costs $40 to enter, but as much as $1200 or more to attend.
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    SOUPR
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Thats how I feel about the consolitation idea.

    The money being a little more than 1st tier is not that much anyway, in relation to the overall pay out.
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I also agree that the money should be more than first tier. You still have to win several hard rounds in a consi. It's not like they're just going to give it to you.
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    PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

    if you are gonna go that route then why not just make it double elimination instead... ???

    it keeps all the money in the main draw...
    and it gives everyone at least two matches... more darts for their money Very Happy

    the "bad draw" person will get his shot at the #1 one more time if he earns it...

    granted i dont belive in good draw / bad draw cuz if you go there to win you have to beat everyone there anyways... just my thought... Wink

    although i do prefer a weaker first round to get my bearings... Wink Rolling Eyes
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    PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Double KO sounds better--ie, I played 5 events and had two bye rounds, shot only 20-22 legs, getting bumped my "first" round 3 times, leaving me with several long waits between, so you really had to 'bring it' right away to get to the money rounds...without much chance to get a rhythm.

    Fortunately a lot of people could bring it on command or just had it at the right times--some pros, some pro-caliber, some regular joes--and those were the winners, and it was a great tourney! I hope it continues to grow, and adjust to calendar issues and find ways to improve. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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