Watch your darts, not your target?

Discussion in 'Practice, Strategy & Technique' started by ducks, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. ducks

    ducks Active Member

    Ran across this article. Watch your dart as it flies to the target? I don't get it.
    Myself, I think that looking at what I want to hit helps me hit it.

    http://www.themartineffect.co.uk/blog-barneveld.htm
     
  2. JDub

    JDub New Member

    I have heard of this to get people from "hitching" but not during a match. It may a technique Barney uses during practice/ I hope someone can verify this for us.
     
  3. Gene

    Gene Member

    Almost sounds like the spot bowling method! Rolling the ball over a spot on the lane, which may change from lane to lane, to compensate for your hook in different lane conditions! 8)
     
  4. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    In racquet sports one is taught to never take one's eye off the ball. When the ball is making contact with the face of the racquet, the eyes are on the ball. When the ball leaves the racquet, they eyes are on the ball. There is no reason to look at the placement of the shot because the walls do not change. (Obviously referring to squash and racquet ball.) Though I imagine the same is true in tennis as well. We know as soon as the ball is hit whether it will be in or out. By looking at the target one is most likely to miss the ball all together.

    Now, this does not seem to hold true with throwing things. Still, I have used the spot on the floor method while bowling, but isn't that just a closer target to focus on? When throwing a baseball or basketball, don't we look at the target and just let our minds and bodies make the adjustments. I would think that there would be more variation in a flight of an object and thus more to worry about than just focusing on the target.

    I'd like to hear more but as the dart in flight is moving and dynamic I imagine there are thousands more variables to consider when striving for consistancy. Focusing on a static target and just letting the dart fly seems both less complicated and a way to increase accuracy.

    With that said, I will watch my dart in flight during warm up at times. I want a nice smooth flight and if I don't think I am getting it, I will work on it. When I do this, I don't really care much about what I hit.
     
  5. thehitman94

    thehitman94 New Member

    oops. wrong account.
     
  6. odiesnitch

    odiesnitch New Member

    That's better....

    It did sound as though this was intended more for practice than anything else. It mentions..."breaks tension" and "avoids the pressure of." Sounds like a good way to zone in, or in this case, "zen" in on simply throwing the dart properly and consistantly.

    As for the bowling...I see this as the exact opposite to a point. I never, in 27 years, watched my ball until after it crossed my target: The spot on the floor. Bowling is similar to this article afterwards. If I missed to the left, did the ball skid. To the right, did it hook sooner. In any case, how far did the ball skid? At the break point, did it snap or did it ease into a nice roll? What did the ball do after it hit the pins, the pocket? Did it deflect? Did it go straight off the back of the pin deck, deflect to the right, or continue to the left?

    ......enough of this. Bowling has elements of both....eyes on your target and then eyes on the object that was thrown.
     
  7. barjo

    barjo New Member

    Isn't watching the ball when he threw it what got Chuck Knoblock all messed up? It seems to me that keeping one's eye on the target and following through is the better method. If I watch my dart instead, woe be the chalker!
     
  8. OnAndGone

    OnAndGone New Member Staff Member

    In practice I have watched the dart just to see it's lfight to the board.

    I think it is a bad habit to into. Of course, I'm not a world champion either. :lol:
     
  9. Charis

    Charis Active Member

    I think, watching the dart would more hurt my throw then help it.

    Of course I sometimes watch, how it flies, but in fact you would need some kind of slow motion to see what really happens and what might be the problem.
    That might be a good thing, should you be able to do it and you perhaps really could find out by it, what you might be doing wrong.

    I doubt, I would be able to hit my target, should I watch the flight of the dart, perhaps when you are a really good player, you can do it. Your arm and brain should then be able to hit the board at the right segment even not looking at it.

    For me it´s necessary to focus on a segment, to be able to hit it.
     
  10. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    It looks like no one here can figure out why anyone would do such a thing, othere than to just see if the dart is flying straight or wobbling. Perhaps we should ask for some clarification? ... I'm on it... letter in the mail.
     
  11. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    So this is what I sent him along with my E-mail address.

    Greetings,
    As a dart player and someone who has a bit of experience in both Zen and Psychology, also, as a participant in several dart sites over the Internet, I would like to express some confusian and curiosity about the article; Raymond Van Barneveld - Zen!

    Frankly put, the article seems to make very little sense at all and flies in the face of most dart throwing conventions. Perhaps you could shed some light on why one (a dart player) would want to watch the flight of the dart instead of the target.

    Most common techniques instruct the player to focus directly on the target, block out all distractions, internal and external, and throw the dart according to a theory based technique requiring a firm foundation, minimal body movement and a repeatable consistancy of delivery.

    It appears that watching the dart in flight will have the effect of "watching the dart in flight" and perhaps not much more.

    There is of course not much wrong with that if one is attempting to relax, simply work on his or her stroke, or just enjoy the feeling.

    Can you offer any elaboration at all as to why one would or should focus on the dart and not the target.

    Thank you,
    Karl M. Hartman, MS, MFCC
    Dart Player
     
  12. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    I found this on my own. It explains the concept quite well and is probably what the author meant; however, it was simply not expressed well.

    The shooter becomes so practiced that he or she can step outside of him or her self as if being an observer and watch the dart in flight.

    "There’s another sense in which consciousness is only the uncommon. As you become highly practiced at a skill, so that it no longer qualifies as novel, maybe it does move from conscious control to less-than-conscious — as in Zen archery, where the object is to become so practiced that no conscious will is required to release the arrow at the right moment. You can simply watch the arrow being released, as if someone else were doing it. In Zen archery, according to Eugen Herrigel, “The shot will only go smoothly when it takes the archer himself by surprise. It must be as if the bowstring suddenly cut through the thumb that held it.”
    William H. Calvin, University of Washington, Making Up the Mind:
     
  13. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    And here is the reply:

    "Hello Karl - Good question. Why watch the flight? Same as in golf...to become an expert in flight.

    Of course you must watch and focus on the target before you throw..but after you have thrown, then the player - dart-target relationship changes. Understanding flight enables you to mentally attune yourself to angles...arcings...speed and the behaviour of the dart in flight. In other words the essence of darts.

    If you practise visualisation work, then this becomes very useful indeed. Becoming an expert in the flight of the golf ball, is one of the reasons that took Tiger's game to another level.

    Any way Karl - don't believe a word I say....try it for yourself and see if it helps.

    Take Care,
    Martin

    The Confidence Coach
    In The Presence Of Confidence, Doubt Cannot Exist"
     
  14. CraigB

    CraigB Best looking Craig B in the forum! $:-{P> Staff Member Site Admin

    I strongly encourage anyone who is playing me to focus on their dart when they're throwing. :twisted:
     
  15. Charis

    Charis Active Member

    I am still not sure about this, because I still think it´s not much what you can see of the flight of your dart, it´s to fast and short that flight.

    It should be different in golf, there the ball might go up too high or go too straight or things like that and by watching the effect of your tee-off, you really might learn something. And in golf you´ve course have a target, but it´s very far away, you often can´t even see it exactly from where you tee-off, so the ball should go more in the right direction.
    When you are nearer the hole, I think you´ll focus on the hole and not on the flight of your golf ball.

    But really to be able to analyse the flight of your dart in such a short moment it takes....You can see whether it flies more or less straight, but that would be all and not even totally true, because it´s never straight, it´s always some kind of curve.
     
  16. Taechon

    Taechon New Member

    I've heard is said that in golf, one sites off the top of a tree or the corner of a building. A golfer only looks directly at the hole when aiming for a short putt. For a longer putt, a situation like aiming a bowling ball is sued. It would make sense to follow the ball's flight in golf but I am not sure about darts.

    Still, I like the little zen explination. Become so automatic that you can watch yourself as if you are not actually there.
     
  17. ducks

    ducks Active Member

    Yeah, the automatic. Just throw the darts. Look at what you want, and throw the darts in. When I'm really shooting well, the distance from me to the board is pretty much nonexistent. To me it's a matter of just putting the darts in. There is no path for the eyes to follow. Darts in my hand, stroke, release, and the darts go in. Boom. That's it. Path? What path?

    It's just you and the board. It is or it isn't.
    What was it in the Deer Hunter that Robert De Niro said to John Cazale when they were up in the mountains?

    What Charis says about the short distance seems to make sense. The extremely short flight time and distance that a dart travels. I don't play golf, but I've watched golf on TV and yeah, I can see how stroking the ball and then letting the head and eyes follow the path of the ball could make sense.
     
  18. Shannonmiles

    Shannonmiles Active Member

    The golf analogy is false because there are TWO targets in golf the most important of which is the ball itself !!! hitting the ball is fairly important 8) 8) Your eyes never leave the target "the ball" until you hit it. The other target (the green....the hole....the spot in the fairway....the bunker.... )is aimed at before the swinging of the club through alignment. Sure following the golf ball in flight could tell you some things due to the long distances involved.....the flight of a dart :roll: :roll: :roll: I'll keep my eyes on the target "the dartboard" everytime :wink: :wink:
     
  19. InFESTation

    InFESTation New Member

    I have never thought about this that deeply, but when I had a board up in the house I occasionaly watched the darts in flight especially if having a bad day on the board, what I can remember was the fact the dart grouping would improve for the throws where I watched the flight, but I could never go for long doing that, I think it just maybe helped with the release moment, or I'm just thinking too much about it now but it was surprising technique.
     
  20. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    I picked up on this thread while trying to read some content from a past member of the site and lucked on to another that I have a bit of experience with. Shannonmiles makes a very strong point in that in golf there are(sort of) two targets. I say sort of because you would have to think of it solely as a hitting sport whereas in large degree the stroke would be nearly identical if you were “slinging” the ball at the target using the club. That being said, the flight of the golf ball(and dart) will teach a lot about our stroke and it’s flaws. In golf, it is(all at the moment of impact)swing path, club face angle, centeredness of contact, club head speed, and angle of approach that make up the “Laws of Ball Flight”. Pure physics! Let’s resurrect this topic not specifically about the watch the dart concept but about what we might consider to be the “Laws of Dart Flight.”
     

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