Balance point

Discussion in 'Tools of the Trade' started by Gilbert Verner, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Gilbert Verner

    Gilbert Verner New Member

    Is there a program or way to determine the balance point of a custom design? I designed the dart I liked and had them made. The dart is front-loaded and I can not throw them ... a waste of a hundred bucks :(

    I thought the maker could drill from the front and back to achieve the balance point I wanted but I was wrong.

    My question is how can i know the balance point of a drawn design before I plug down 100 bucks to get them made?

    FYI I knew Jeff and use to hang out with him at Dart tournaments he was a super guy back in the day.
     
  2. Gilbert Verner

    Gilbert Verner New Member

    I have adjusted the design in hopes the balance point is where I have it but it is not a guarantee when made :(
     

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  3. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Just an observation loose your requirement for a hammer head style tip this would allow drilling from the tip end of the dart and eliminating the front loading
     
  4. Gilbert Verner

    Gilbert Verner New Member

    Why would I loose it.... isn't that what allows for it? Unless you are saying to use a standard conversion point...
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  5. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    a hammer head tip works like a percussion piston you extend the tip and lock it in place when you throw and the tip engages the board it trips the lock and allows the tip to retract a fraction of an inch until it hits the back of the threaded hole and then the momentum drives the point into the board. If you drill a relief to eliminate weight at the front of the dart the point will not come against a hard stop soon enough if at all. If you use a standard steel tip conversion point this is not an issue.
     
  6. Erik

    Erik Site Owner Staff Member Site Admin Site Moderator

    I haven't used hammer heads in a LONG LONG time....no real need with the good boards today -- just a thought
     
  7. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    I used Voks’ EL-C movable point darts primarily for one house we played at in NewLondon CT many moons ago. The bullseye was so worn out it was CRAZY! Only way to get the dart to stick was a moveable point! Now they’re probably a thing of the past although the still make them. Cool dart though and I did play well with them!
     
  8. Gilbert Verner

    Gilbert Verner New Member

    ya, I was thinking about that yesterday too. I started back when they had the stables to hold wires on and the wire was a thicker gauge so the concept made sense.
    Do they make a screw end cap that allows you to put different points in? NOT conversion points I mean a cap with a hole so you can put any standard fix point in and out.

    that would be a great option ...
     
  9. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    I have never seen one personally but it is conceivable to do . The set screw would be very tiny though think eye glasses screws maybe a little bigger. Might be a real challenge in a dimly light bar LOL.
     
  10. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    Could be a compression setup like the base of the conversion point split so that it would compress the point on tightening. Would probably be more trouble than it’s worth.
     
  11. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    You could make a threaded tip and hole but like the conversion tips without thread locker it would soon loosen up. The repointing tool is probably still the best option but even with it you wouldn't want to be consistently changing tips as the hole would eventually loose its gauge and the tip would want to slide out.
     
    VanO likes this.
  12. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    kind of got away from the original question as to how to find a balance point.Well it would be a pretty complicated math problem. You are dealing with a couple geometric shapes you have tapered sections(frustrums) and straight sections(cylinders) in the simplest configurations. You would have to determine the weight (based on the density of the metal used) of each section subtracting any material removal for grip like knurls etc and where they are in the section and breaking them into subsections if necessary. After all that is done then you would probably need to use limits in calculus to predict how the COG moved as each section was added to the next. It would probably best be done using 3D cad to compute all the geometric volumes and the write a subroutine using calculus to dtermine the COG.
     
  13. VanO

    VanO Moderator Site Moderator

    Geez! When we made our darts I said I would trust your opinion cause you were the engineer and you just brushed it off and said mining engineer. Now you’re using words like frustrums and calculus and stuff! :D
     
  14. kennyg

    kennyg Member

    Actually Geological engineer:rolleyes: and it all comes with the territory lots of math. That being said the point I was trying to make is that for complex designs that are not symmetrical it's not just a simple solution. Full disclosure I'm not good, patient or remember enough to attempt doing it myself.
     

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